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Car that needs refueling only every 100 years; Boom goes peak oil
Topic Started: 4 Dec 2013, 03:22 PM (7,801 Views)
Pig Iron
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Bogan scum

Count du Monet
4 Dec 2013, 09:57 PM
There hasn't been a successful breeder reactor of any variety yet.

You have a real link, (not Sorensen) showing a working LFTR at any point in history?
you always fall back to this when proven wrong. "it's all a big conspiracy" blah blah...

they made it work, just deal with it.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:zvkGv0aAzRcJ:www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/124473.pdf+Status+of+Physics+and+Safety+Analyses+for+the+Liquid-Salt-Cooled+Very+High-Temperature+Reacto&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESheMfaNkAam1m0DmOieVMSpVE95DAI1BGTIjcw75v4Jwb8jHTpOSzwppZCKFYofQseh9oREPE295QLkrlmTroyl47JFlPBOZPEHPP-aH4z1fNcvr8uH-2b2AL6EjomOwyPRxuwe&sig=AHIEtbTWPtEMbVaGI3CBNso76IkQZFK99A

the french built working breeder reactors. please feel free to retract your statement.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nucene/fasbre.html
I am the love child of Tony Abbott and Pauline Hanson
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Count du Monet
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Andrew Judd
4 Dec 2013, 10:11 PM


Count is in fact correct. The oak ridge experiment was an engineering mock up which only used liquid Uranium based fuel

i think you are getting mixed up.

Thorium is fertile rather than fissile. To begin producing the fissile heat producing Uranium, a Thorium reactor will always require a source of neutrons, but once started the fission of the uranium that the reactor is creating, will create a self sustaining reaction where the fertile Thorium is consumed to produced fissile Uranium that is in turn consumed producing heat.

The nature of a Thorium reactor is that for it to work it has to breed fissile Uranium 233
Always pays to read the fine print. However if you date a cross dresser and it feels good, why complain? :re: But technically it wasn't a women.

At no point am I saying it's impossible. But there are huge hurdles in technology that have to be solved. The thing is experiments in Uranium reactors are far more likely to pay off because it is relatively already well understood.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Kulganis
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Andrew Judd
4 Dec 2013, 10:15 PM
Thats a Uranium fuelled reactor. They were testing the idea of a liquid fuelled reactor.

Count is in fact correct. The Oak Ridge experiment was an engineering mock up which only used liquid Uranium based fuel
Uranium isn't all the same, yes, a Thorium reactor breeds Uranium 233, not Uranium 238, 233 is incredibly hard to weaponise.
Quote:
 
MOLTEN-SALT REACTOR EXPERIMENT
With the ARE having shown the feasibility of molten-salt fuel, ORNL persuaded the AEC to fund a study of molten-salt power reactors. Two concepts were evaluated, both graphite moderated and based on the U-233/thorium fuel cycle. In one, the uranium and thorium were in the same salt. In the other, a thorium salt that formed a fertile blanket was kept separate from the fuel salt by a graphite barrier. The single-fluid concept was simpler, but a net breeding gain appeared to be possible in a two-fluid reactor
Page 29 - http://info.ornl.gov/sites/publications/Files/Pub20808.pdf
You people are incredibly fearful of change aren't you?
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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Andrew Judd
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Kulganis
4 Dec 2013, 10:46 PM
Uranium isn't all the same, yes, a Thorium reactor breeds Uranium 233, not Uranium 238, 233 is incredibly hard to weaponise.

You people are incredibly fearful of change aren't you?
Its got nothing to do with fear of change!

Count is correct that at the moment the whole thing is experimental


Even for Uranium there is little active funding going on for breeders.
Edited by Andrew Judd, 4 Dec 2013, 10:54 PM.
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Count du Monet
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Pig Iron
4 Dec 2013, 10:35 PM


they made it work, just deal with it.


No, no reactor has ever been built that creates more fissile material than it uses. Theoretically possible, they just haven't gotten quite there. If the French had that they wouldn't be currently turning the lights off in Paris to save money. They built what they named a breeder reactor, it missed by that much.



All reactors of any variety will produce fissile material from "fertile" material. However not enough for independence from naturally occurring fissile material. Uranium breeder reactors are still being developed, perhaps they will succeed in producing a true breeder. At this stage this is more feasible than a LFTR. The thing with LFTR is potential for mirco reactors, but at present it is not considered a cost effective line of research compared to Uranium breeders.
Kulganis
4 Dec 2013, 10:46 PM
Uranium isn't all the same, yes, a Thorium reactor breeds Uranium 233, not Uranium 238, 233 is incredibly hard to weaponise.

You people are incredibly fearful of change aren't you?
Any form of breeder can be used to created weapons grade. Once you got a true breeder the possibilities are endless.
Edited by Count du Monet, 4 Dec 2013, 10:55 PM.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Kulganis
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Andrew Judd
4 Dec 2013, 10:53 PM
Its got nothing to do with fear of change!

Count is correct that at the moment the whole thing is experimental
No, count said they were designs and not actually built, they may be experimental but they were actually built.
Count du Monet
4 Dec 2013, 10:53 PM
Any form of breeder can be used to created weapons grade. Once you got a true breeder the possibilities are endless.
Help me here, I did say 'incredibly hard' didn't I. I didn't say impossible.
Edited by Kulganis, 4 Dec 2013, 10:56 PM.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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Count du Monet
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Kulganis
4 Dec 2013, 10:55 PM
No, count said they were designs and not actually built, they may be experimental but they were actually built.
I repeat again, the only place LFTR exists is on the drawing board. Feel free to buy shares! :D
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Andrew Judd
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Count du Monet
4 Dec 2013, 10:53 PM
No, no reactor has ever been built that creates more fissile material than it uses. Theoretically possible, they just haven't gotten quite there.
For a thorium reactor there is no requirement that it creates more fissile material than it uses. All it has to do is consume thorium, create Uranium and consume Uranium.

The norwegians are saying they can achieve this, but saying at the most simplest the easiest use of Thorium - in existing slightly modified boiling water reactors - will be via MOX.
Edited by Andrew Judd, 4 Dec 2013, 11:18 PM.
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Kulganis
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Pig Iron, I understand now why you seem so angry in some of your posts, it's a bit like beating your head against the wall isn't it?
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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Andrew Judd
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Kulganis
4 Dec 2013, 11:07 PM
Pig Iron, I understand now why you seem so angry in some of your posts, it's a bit like beating your head against the wall isn't it?
Kulgaris

You began here telling us that Thorium had an established proven experimental reactor design.

At the moment we are looking for one single Thorium breeder reactor design

Pig Iron is in denial

Count has comprehensively wiped the floor on this one so far.
Edited by Andrew Judd, 4 Dec 2013, 11:44 PM.
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