1. The working Uranium molten salt reactor was built as part of a plan, at the proof of concept stage, to ultimately build a fully working thorium breeder reactor
2. The built reactor was not a breeder and contained no Thorium.
3. "The fuel carrier salt that was circulated in the final prenuclear test contained depleted uranium....... made critical by adding 69 kg of highly enriched 235U" Eventually 200Kg of U235 was added.
4. Later with impressive ease they removed the U235 and added 33.4Kg of U233 in batches to achieve criticality for the first time any reactor had operated using U233. Only these isotopes were investigated. U233 is the operating fissile isotope for a Thorium reactor.
5. The built working Uranium reactor was designed as a mock up of the central critical/'neutronic' part of a later to be built two separated liquids breeder reactor that would have eventually a thorium blanket liquid fuel circulating in graphite pipes around a critical liquid core. The built reactor design was never intended to be a single molten fuel thorium breeder reactor.
"The fuel salt contains no thorium because at the time the reactor was being designed we were thinking in terms of the two-fluid breeder and we made the MSIRE salt similar to the anticipated breeder fuel salt."
6. They did have plans at an advanced stage for a single liquid molten thorium breeder but the built reactor mock up was not for this type but even so it tested many of the engineering challenges that either design would face.
7. Incidently the problems they had with damaging cracking of all parts in contact with the hot fuel salt were said to be solved at a later date, so everything considered they were much closer than i had originally given them credit for, particularly when the basic design was already drawn up around 1959.
Look I agree that suppression goes on, there is no doubt about it frank, but you have to sift the fact from the fiction.
Some people think we have arrived at this lofty place in human advancement because our brains have evolved and we are now super-smart. But I believe we simply had a 200 year bounty of fossil fuels (oil and coal) that allowed most of us to walk out of the corn fields and put our minds to better use. That is now ending, not because the oil and gas have run out, they haven't, but because there are 7Billion odd wanting the second half of it, and it no longer gushes out of the ground like before when we built all this crap we call home.
You would be quite surprised if you saw how many solar panels I have frank. And none of them are on the roof. They are in storage. I bought a ton of them at cost, good quality ones too, not the junk they are putting up on homes these days. They will never be connected to the grid either, grid solar is proving to be a total scam, as I knew it would be.
From your links:
Quote:
An alliance of corporations and conservative activists is mobilising to penalise homeowners who install their own solar panels – casting them as "freeriders" – in a sweeping new offensive against renewable energy, the Guardian has learned.
"This is an issue we are going to be exploring," Eick said. He said Alec wanted to lower the rate electricity companies pay homeowners for direct power generation – and maybe even charge homeowners for feeding power into the grid.
"As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentially freeriders on the system. They are not paying for the infrastructure they are using. In effect, all the other non direct generation customers are being penalised," he said.
You see, they are using the grid. They are not simply putting up panels and using the power themselves as isolated consumers, they are trying to rort the system. There is no conspircacy here frank, they are basically thieves who want to sell power to other people without paying for the grid that interconnects them.
As for the guy who went to jail for catching rain water, well he was an idiot who refused to pay a fine and instead chose to make a political statement. They do it all the time in the US.
Quote:
“I’m sacrificing my liberty so we can stand up as a country and stand for our liberty,” Harrington told a small crowd of people gathered outside of the Jackson County Jail. Several people held signs that showed support for Harrington as he was taken inside the jail.
Harrington was found guilty two weeks ago of breaking a 1925 law for having, what state water managers called “three illegal reservoirs” on his property.
So what's wrong with diverting water into personal storage? Did you know that Waterborne diseases are on the rise in the US? Dengue fever, West Nile encephalitis, etc. Perhaps the government are trying to crack down because of this. 60 years ago mosquitos were in plague proportions in brisbane and they banned all home water tanks because of it. Now the tanks are back but they have good screens that prevent bugs getting in and we have filters that can remove pathogenic microbes if we want to drink it.
Perhaps this wasn't the reason, but no one owns the world's rivers and streems, they are protected as community assets. This prick claimed he owned the ones on his property and diverted their flow for his own personal gain. He's just another thief.
Shadow was hopelessly wrong about the Gold Bull Market. What else is he wrong about?
As for the guy who went to jail for catching rain water, well he was an idiot who refused to pay a fine and instead chose to make a political statement.
Nothing new about this one. Communal ownership of water supplies have been there since government was invented. If not then every farm along the Murray would claim it is entitled to all the water at no cost. Of course they had to peel back water rights because they were using too much of the Murray. Yet it is a fact, the run off from your property is communally owned otherwise those that depend on water supplies down stream might get none.
You guys all fail History class or something?
I'm not sure of any case for capturing sunlight though. At moment sunlight hitting your property simply coverts to a longer wavelength creating what call "heat". Solar panels simply convert an amount to electricity. The economics of it I don't know, in terms of dollars? What is the CO2 cost of creating the solar panels? For example on average every 100 kg of motor vehicle supplied to the market results in a tonn of emission before it is driven as personal transport. The construction and supply of a Landcrusier emits 32 tonns of CO2,. it then goes on to emit another 32 tonns when driven 12,000 to 15,000 km.
Pig Iron
6 Dec 2013, 10:16 PM
oh so we have gone from it only being a concept on paper to being a trial that didn't produce OPTIMAL results?
who's the dumb one again???
There's not much point in a Thorium breeder cycle unless it can deliver on its promise. Even then conventional reactors remain the cheaper to run. A light water reactor creates 60% of the fuel burned, a heavy water reactor about 80% of the fuel burned. A breeder is defined as something that can create more 100% of the fuel burned. Something with 120% can possibly convert 70% of all the fertile material supplied. But it's not that easy because the spent rods would have to be reprocessed numerous times and this is far more expensive and dangerous than simply creating new rods from freshly mined uranium. Spent rods contain numerous elements that need to be separated.
There's not much point in a Thorium breeder cycle unless it can deliver on its promise. Even then conventional reactors remain the cheaper to run. A light water reactor creates 60% of the fuel burned, a heavy water reactor about 80% of the fuel burned. A breeder is defined as something that can create more 100% of the fuel burned. Something with 120% can possibly convert 70% of all the fertile material supplied. But it's not that easy because the spent rods would have to be reprocessed numerous times and this is far more expensive and dangerous than simply creating new rods from freshly mined uranium. Spent rods contain numerous elements that need to be separated.
It is odd the way you keep transmitting without regard to educational material that should cause you to correct your earlier transmissions.
The Thorium breeding cycle is proven using existing light water reactor technology and therefore a single liquid molten salt Thorium Breeder is forseeable technology.
Yes Pig Iron is not much better on this topic but what is your excuse this time??
You do the same strange dance on the banking topic.
There's not much point in a Thorium breeder cycle unless it can deliver on its promise. Even then conventional reactors remain the cheaper to run. A light water reactor creates 60% of the fuel burned, a heavy water reactor about 80% of the fuel burned. A breeder is defined as something that can create more 100% of the fuel burned. Something with 120% can possibly convert 70% of all the fertile material supplied. But it's not that easy because the spent rods would have to be reprocessed numerous times and this is far more expensive and dangerous than simply creating new rods from freshly mined uranium. Spent rods contain numerous elements that need to be separated.
There are no fuel rods in the Thorium cycle, the fuel is a liquid. Which is operated at atmospheric pressure, no need for the giant containment building or the numerous safety systems required in a pressure environment.
Uranium is currently about $79,000 per tonne, Thorium is currently about $25,000 per tonne.
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There are no fuel rods in the Thorium cycle, the fuel is a liquid. Which is operated at atmospheric pressure, no need for the giant containment building or the numerous safety systems required in a pressure environment.
Uranium is currently about $79,000 per tonne, Thorium is currently about $25,000 per tonne.
Come on! Get with the program!
The only working Thorium reactor used fuel rods and existing light water technology
A molten salt Thorium breeder has never been built.
Please adapt to these realities so we can move on in the conversation.
It is odd the way you keep transmitting without regard to educational material that should cause you to correct your earlier transmissions.
The Thorium breeding cycle is proven using existing light water reactor technology and therefore a single liquid molten salt Thorium Breeder is forseeable technology.
Yes Pig Iron is not much better on this topic but what is your excuse this time??
You do the same strange dance on the banking topic.
You do understand that the critical factor is "breeding" more than 100% fuel replacement? That all reactors "breed" new material? Did you know uranium deposits in the ground "breed" material?
Quote:
Thorium Breeder is foreseeable technology.
It's been forseeable for 70 years, so what?
You do understand that even an optimal thorium breeder reactor still cost more to run than a conventional reactor? Or do you think it will cost less?
You'll have explain yourself better.
Kulganis
7 Dec 2013, 07:40 AM
There are no fuel rods in the Thorium cycle, the fuel is a liquid. Which is operated at atmospheric pressure, no need for the giant containment building or the numerous safety systems required in a pressure environment.
You can have a Thorium cycle that uses rods, did you know that?
Quote:
Uranium is currently about $79,000 per tonne, Thorium is currently about $25,000 per tonne.
Yes but the Uranium contains some isotope U235. The Thorium doesn't come with U233.
You do understand that the critical factor is "breeding" more than 100% fuel replacement? That all reactors "breed" new material? Did you know uranium deposits in the ground "breed" material?
It's been forseeable for 70 years, so what?
You do understand that even an optimal thorium breeder reactor still cost more to run than a conventional reactor? Or do you think it will cost less?
You'll have explain yourself better. You can have a Thorium cycle that uses rods, did you know that?
Yes but the Uranium contains some isotope U235. The Thorium doesn't come with U233.
It's the fissile stuff which is valuable.
Sigh
You appear fixated with the contents of your mind and demonstrably struggle with reality no matter how many times it is presented to you!
A very successful Thorium breeder was built at Shippingport using light water technology, fuel rods and so forth!!!!!
But
The molten salt Thorium breeder has not been built and there are formidable challenges before it can be built.
------------
For Christ sakes stop asking me what i understand and begin some understanding yourself before you once again totally ignore what i have already told you!
Now you are asking me if i know what a freeking breeder is!
It is the same old merry go around with you as with banking
Yes if ample fissile Uranium remains Thorium breeders are a none starter, but at least produce something that recognises you are capable of correcting your mistakes. For days you have been acting like you are an authority on this subject while continuing incorrectly saying the molten salt reactor was a hybrid! And you seem to be bending over backwards to avoid a successful Thorium breeder from being allowed to exist!
Some people think we have arrived at this lofty place in human advancement because our brains have evolved and we are now super-smart. But I believe we simply had a 200 year bounty of fossil fuels (oil and coal) that allowed most of us to walk out of the corn fields and put our minds to better use.
I agree, I think we've all been mislead. The extraordinary economic growth of the past 150 or so years is due mainly to fossil fuels. Scientific progress, population growth, capitalism all played their part. But mainly it was this incredible one-off bounty of pre-prepared, convenient, energy-dense fuel.
I agree, I think we've all been mislead. The extraordinary economic growth of the past 150 or so years is due mainly to fossil fuels. Scientific progress, population growth, capitalism all played their part. But mainly it was this incredible one-off bounty of pre-prepared, convenient, energy-dense fuel.
The so called fossil fuels have always been there. Without even simple technology most of it was unreachable.
Today an ordinary person can afford to have a 10cm diameter directional well drilled 300m thru the hardest granite on Earth and it only takes a day for it to be done, necessarily our ability to reach fuel has been transformed by technology and there is no reason the progress will not continue.
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