Life is not 'fair' Pauk. I am born ugly and stupid in a third world country of parents who have no particular social or professional contacts of note. You are born handsome and intelligent in a first world one of parents who do. That is not 'fair'. One must accept much of this for what it is. And stop trying to make everything all 'fair' - Or what your version of 'fair' is anyway.
It can just as reasonably be argued that it is 'fair' to say to people that if you have minimal assets, you will simply have to keep working until you drop dead of old age - NO retirement for you! - Because YOU can not afford to retire on YOUR assets. And it would NOT be 'fair' to expect someone ELSE to pay for YOUR retirement. (But that is not your view on life of course. That is not what YOU see as 'fair'.)
Re "You(r) suggestion is that they should and this is where we disagree, correct?" - Incorrect! We disagree over everything. Because you are a Socialist. And I know that Socialism is a fundamentally flawed system.
Pauk doesn't care about fair, he just wants the 80 year old nana's to be forced to get out of their house a few years earlier so that he can get a bargain.
I wouldn't call that communism, I'd say he has a future on Wall Street. And he does it under the pretence of helping society - he's doing "Gods work" herbie - have some respect for his mission.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
Peter, dear me, you assume to much and in some cases, like the property spruiker.com.au domain where you assumed things and are clearly wrong. Have you ever admitted a mistake? You clearly have no idea why I would like to see more affordable housing and I have not the time or intention to outline to you why. http://australianpropertyforum.com/single/?p=8443620&t=9986733
Herbie Yes, I appreciate your input and it does make me ponder. I do note your point about life is not fair in general, however that is rather a long bow, when we are discussing pension asset testing. To simple say, life is not fair and therefore we should leave what clearly seem unfair welfare entitlements to me alone, is hard for me to digest. I do think we should provide welfare as a security net to those that actually need it. I just do not think millionaires, need it. I am also not a socialist although I am on the left of centre. Is it your idea that we pay for the ageing nation by making the workers pay more tax? I also assume that you think capitalism is also flawed, so I am trying to see if you have any actual solutions, rather than just being critical about all suggestions.
And he does it under the pretence of helping society - he's doing "Gods work" herbie - have some respect for his mission.
Also known as the veneer of altruism. Behind there you will also find some pro-immigration property investors. They demand Australia take "our fair share" of the world's migrants, supposedly to help other countries, while their real agenda is the capital appreciation of their investment properties.
barns Grandma would get a RM from Centrelink for her living expenses and her land tax, although for pensioners the land tax could accrue till the property was sold.. She would not have to move at all.
She certainly should not get a tax payer pension when she lives in a $4 million home.
Sorry, but this is ridiculous.
Even if we means test the pension away for lots of people, we should still give seniors the health care benefits and related benefits. People are are self funded retirees will, almost by definition, have paid more tax than those who retire without doing so (you pay tax in your super fund don't forget).
Forcing old people out of the homes they have worked and paid for, so younger people who can't or won't save and put some work in, is just scummy.
There are already a number of things about living in Australia that aren't conducive to encouraging hard work; the last thing we need is another.
Herbie Yes, I appreciate your input and it does make me ponder. I do note your point about life is not fair in general, however that is rather a long bow, when we are discussing pension asset testing. To simple say, life is not fair and therefore we should leave what clearly seem unfair welfare entitlements to me alone, is hard for me to digest. I do think we should provide welfare as a security net to those that actually need it. I just do not think millionaires, need it. I am also not a socialist although I am on the left of centre. Is it your idea that we pay for the ageing nation by making the workers pay more tax? I also assume that you think capitalism is also flawed, so I am trying to see if you have any actual solutions, rather than just being critical about all suggestions.
Could have sworn I'd heard you describe yourself as a 'scientific socialist' under one of your various handles Pauk? - YES or NO???
Your concept of what is or isn't 'fair' is simply that Pauk ... Your concept of it. My concept of it is different pretty obviously.
"Is it your idea that we pay for the ageing nation by making the workers pay more tax?" - Piss off - You're the bloke who wants people to pay more tax. I'm more ya YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO RETIRE ON THE ASSETS YOU'VE EARNED SO KEEP WORKING 'TIL YA EITHER CAN OR DROP DEAD type bastard!
Me? Solutions??? Guffaw; Guffaw; Guffaw! - None at all ... Other than the boring old time tested and very UNPOPULAR mainstay of "Live within your means" - And by that, I DO mean YOUR means - Not the means of every other poor bugger you figure you can vote ya Scientific Socialist gov into taking loot off!
Peter, dear me, you assume to much and in some cases, like the property spruiker.com.au domain where you assumed things and are clearly wrong. Have you ever admitted a mistake? You clearly have no idea why I would like to see more affordable housing and I have not the time or intention to outline to you why. http://australianpropertyforum.com/single/?p=8443620&t=9986733
Herbie Yes, I appreciate your input and it does make me ponder. I do note your point about life is not fair in general, however that is rather a long bow, when we are discussing pension asset testing. To simple say, life is not fair and therefore we should leave what clearly seem unfair welfare entitlements to me alone, is hard for me to digest. I do think we should provide welfare as a security net to those that actually need it. I just do not think millionaires, need it. I am also not a socialist although I am on the left of centre. Is it your idea that we pay for the ageing nation by making the workers pay more tax? I also assume that you think capitalism is also flawed, so I am trying to see if you have any actual solutions, rather than just being critical about all suggestions.
Pork,
A lot of your manifesto has been debunked. Would you like to post it for the 359th time so we can all have another go?
Shouldn't wealthy people like yourself with 'large' and 'successful' business and commercial interests contribute more?
Herbs Well I do support a safety net for those that need it and yes! that does make me a socialist of types. Yes, you are quite correct that previously I have described myself as a 'scientific socialist'. I take you you are ok with some social services, police, schools, hospitals etc, just not welfare in general?
I have been lobbying that other welfare go. The paid parental scheme, if it is to be thought of as a workplace entitlement, should be paid by business, not as welfare. Business pays holidays and sick days so why not PPL? Using the $5.5 billion to reduce company tax would be a good thing to do.
I do not want people to pay more tax. I want tax to be more broad based, like land tax and GST. I certainly do not want workers to pay more tax for the increasing pensions for people living in multimillion dollar homes.
Your thoughts make me ponder and for that I thank you, even if at the end of my pondering I still think you are wrong.
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