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Australia's inefficient use of space; I wish we could build like this here
Topic Started: 14 Oct 2013, 01:30 PM (4,977 Views)
Frank Castle
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Everytime I am in Vietnam I am always impressed by the "tube" houses and the great use of space many of them have.
http://www.dezeen.com/2013/08/28/anh-house-by-sanuki-nishizawa/
Posted Image
In Australia on an average block of land of 400m2 with a 12m frontage you could build 3 of these, yet we are restricted by govt regulation to building just one house and usually to a pretty ordinary design.

Instead, we could have this
Fresh veg and herbs for the picking
http://www.dezeen.com/2012/07/09/stacking-green-by-vo-trong-nghia/
Posted Image

or a bit more width gets you this which interestingly enough is still on a 140m2 site yet houses 3 generations on its different levels
http://www.dezeen.com/2013/08/13/binh-thanh-house-by-vo-trong-nghia-and-sanuki-nishizawa/
Posted Image

I also loved the rooftop entertainment area that while never utalised much there would of course have spa , bar and BBQ installed here.


Edited by Frank Castle, 14 Oct 2013, 01:32 PM.
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Kulganis
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It's out of necessity, Vietnam had a population density of 263 People/Km2 and Australia had a population density of 2.9 People/Km2 in 2009.

Sydney had a population density of 22.29 People/Km2 in 2010.
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Frank Castle
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Unfortunately for Australians, most could never afford to build like this even if planning allowed.

In Vietnam of course, things are a bit different as most buildings - even ones several stories high are concrete frame and brick infill which is a cheap and easy method when labour is so cheap, is often done by family and building and material transport is done like this.
I took these pictures when last there

Laying bricks and rendering - note the concrete and steel frame.
and yes, they are just timber posts punched through the wall with some timber planks of sorts to work on.
Safety First
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Posted Image

and getting steel delivered is as simple as loading up a cyclo and getting a friend with a scooter to push

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We used to have a certain freedom to get things done, even in the 80's when I started work but now, wankers in offices make far to many rules and regulation for every step and all that costs $$$.

Kulganis
14 Oct 2013, 01:39 PM
It's out of necessity, Vietnam had a population density of 263 People/Km2 and Australia had a population density of 2.9 People/Km2 in 2009.

Sydney had a population density of 22.29 People/Km2 in 2010.
Yes but if instead of knocking down some shitbox house and replacing with more of the same, if we were allowed to build like this - we could all live a short scooter ride* away from the CBD if we wanted to.

* Ban non essential cars and trucks from a 5klm radius of the cbd making it easier for scooters
Edited by Frank Castle, 14 Oct 2013, 01:46 PM.
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barns
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There was a Grand Designs Australia episode where an architect guy built a 4 storey house like this in Surry Hills, Sydney on 50sqm or something close, basically, a double/triple car space in a rear lane in Surry Hills.

Garage on bottom, then bedroom, then lounge, then kitchen/dining room and study and roof terrace at the top.

He won some International design awards.

Wasn't cheap though, about $200k for the block and $400k to build for what was really a 1 bedroom house.

Link to episode info
Edited by barns, 14 Oct 2013, 01:51 PM.
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Frank Castle
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Kulganis
14 Oct 2013, 01:39 PM
It's out of necessity
And its not really
These are certainly more sizable and only a short distance from the CBD

Note grass on roof for cooling
Posted Image

And this place was sitting empty - someones weekender?
Posted Image
Edited by Frank Castle, 14 Oct 2013, 01:55 PM.
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Kulganis
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Obviously, you'll find areas that don't have the density of Ho Chi Minh City, but people generally gravitate towards the centers that have more jobs, this means (mostly) inner city living, in Australia, even our inner city living is nowhere near as dense as Ho Chi Minh or Ha Noi.

Especially since Vietnam has outrageous vehicle taxes.

Quote:
 
Vietnam is listed among countries with the most expensive car, due to the outrageously high tax rate that the government charges per car. Those taxes make the cost of getting a car often increase by a significant sum, sometimes as high as twice or triple the original price.

The first tax that consumers have to pay is the value-added tax for VAT. This tax will be 10% of the original cost of your car. On top of that, the car owner also has to pay the Special Consumption Tax. This tax varies for different types of car, but for the normal civil cars, it can be quite high from 40 to 60% of the car's original price. For example, for cars with fewer than nine seats, the tax is charged 45% for the under 2,000cm3 cylinder capacity engine, 50% for engine with cylinder capacity from 2,000 to 3,000 cm3 and 60% for engine with cylinder capacity above 3,000 cm3.

Other types of cars such as a truck or van with over ten seats, electric car or bio-energy cars are charged lower Special Consumption tax, ranging between 10 and 30% of the original amount you would pay. In addition, if the car is fully imported from other countries, it also has to pay Importation tax.

For cars containing engine with cylinder capacity less than 2.5l, the importation tax is 82% and for cars containing engine with cylinder capacity above 3l, it is 72 – 77% the original price of the cars. When the car is registered, it is further charged registration tax and some other additional fees. The registration tax is also different from cars to cars, but mostly from 10 to 15% the original price of the car for civil car under 10 seats.

http://www.vietnamonline.com/az/car-sale-tax.html

Given the recent outcry from salary packagers over the requirement for log books for corporate cars, could you imagine the level of support for taxes of a similar nature being introduced here? Or even banning cars within distances around CBD's?
Edited by Kulganis, 14 Oct 2013, 02:11 PM.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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Frank Castle
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Kulganis
14 Oct 2013, 02:00 PM
Obviously, you'll find areas that don't have the density of Ho Chi Minh City, but people generally gravitate towards the centers that have more jobs, this means (mostly) inner city living, in Australia, even our inner city living is nowhere near as dense as Ho Chi Minh or Ha Noi.



I only need go 3klm out of Saigon CBD for plenty of space with major roads and bridges connecting to the CBD
http://goo.gl/maps/1p3ao

Quote:
 
Especially since Vietnam has outrageous vehicle taxes.

Only on cars but not on steppies.
I can buy a brand new Yamaha Nouvo or similar there for a fraction of the cost of its equivalent here.
In fact next trip, I am going to BUY a good second hand one and give it away to someone who needs it when I leave.
It'll cost about the same as a 3mth rental.

If bikes where not in such ripoff territory here and rego and insurance the same I would buy one myself and take a car off the road.
But its almost cheaper for me to drive a full size v6 car with the klms I do than it is to have a fken 125cc scooter
How fucked up is that.
Edited by Frank Castle, 14 Oct 2013, 02:17 PM.
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Kulganis
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I'm not arguing against it, I'd love to see it happen here.

I just think it wouldn't fly in Australia, too many people are about the big open spaces they have already bought into.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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Frank Castle
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Kulganis
14 Oct 2013, 02:00 PM
Given the recent outcry from salary packagers over the requirement for log books for corporate cars, could you imagine the level of support for taxes of a similar nature being introduced here? Or even banning cars within distances around CBD's?
My point on the vehicles is that there are currently a shitpile of people who drive to work who dont actually use their cars for their work.
If they were close enough they could ride a steppie, freeing up parking space and roads
Of course as further incentive bike prices, rego and insurance should be less.

If they lived further out they could make better use of park and ride facilites
or, as is the case with our neighbour who drives in and pays for parking daily for his seat polishing job, walk a couple of hundred meters and catch a train.
Of course as further incentive, ticket prices need to be reduced or even free during peak travel times.
Currently, if I want to go into town by train return it almost costs as much as it would if I drove in and and paid for parking.
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mel
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Frank how much might a 10sq home set us back over there?

I know the question is similar to 'how long is a piece of string', but how cheap do you reckon you could get something like that within 20km from the CBD?

thanks
Edited by mel, 14 Oct 2013, 06:20 PM.
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