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China Calls for World to Be 'De-Americanised'; Anglospheres Decline Begins
Topic Started: 13 Oct 2013, 11:50 PM (1,809 Views)
herbie
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The decline of the West has become a more mainstream concept than it was 5 years ago.
I guess one issue is whether Oz is more West or East?
But irrespective, yes, we surely do have to expect to see the major powers continue to jockey for positions as/if such a change unfolds.

Das on it here:

"PETER MARES:
Is there a chance if things get too difficult that China could walk away from, say, its investments in US Treasury bonds and other hard currencies - just sort of cut its losses and withdraw from the rest of the world?

SATYAJIT DAS:
I think fundamentally that's part of a bigger game. It is my contention, and always has been, that the idea of free trade - not completely free but freer trade and freer capital movements - was not actually something which existed in a historical void. It wasn't as if everybody suddenly discovered the economic merits of it. It was because we had strong growth and we could afford all of that. It was a luxury product, if you like, in one sense. As growth comes down and some of the problems of these capital flows and trade flows become relevant, it's entirely possible that countries will retreat to a far greater degree of closed economies than we have seen in, say, the last 30 years. Certainly for China that has enormous attractions. First, it's a very large country, and particularly if it can build these supply chains, then it can cut itself off from the world, not easily, but certainly to a degree which is sustainable. The second thing is, I think at some point, whether it be in a year, five years, 10 years or 20 years, they basically are going to have to acknowledge that these reserves are basically gone. They're not going to get it back. So basically they will lose this over time. So a smart way would be to actually mentally, at least, write them off, but refuse to extend further credit to the United States in the process that we have been talking about, and to basically close their economy and focus inwardly. There is also a couple of, I suppose, social, political and cultural elements to that. The Chinese don't see engagement with the rest of the world as a permanent part of their economic future necessarily. That's a relatively recent phenomenon of the last 30 years. So it's very easy for them to turn around and go back, and particularly if the reasoning is that they have, in some way, been harshly treated by the West, whether it's in terms of economic terms or in terms of criticism of human rights. You can almost see the Chinese in a political sense setting up straw men for this debate. One is obviously the issue of foreign exchange reserves and the international monetary system which, since 2009, the Chinese have been vehemently arguing should be reformed and the primary role of the US dollar and the US in general be much reduced. Of course, the US is never going to accept that. Also, the territorial issues in and around the South China Sea and in the Yellow Sea between China and its neighbours, particularly with Japan, is almost to my mind part of a larger narrative of China almost setting up a reason for it to become a much more closed, much more isolated country, and almost reverting back to its pre-1980 sort of scenario. I always caution people who say, well, once you are on this path, you can't reverse. I always remind them that history is full of monumental reversals of that nature."

Source: http://upclose.unimelb.edu.au/episode/266-all-feasts-must-end-satyajit-das-china-crossroads#transcription
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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goldbug
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barns
14 Oct 2013, 08:03 AM
Remember that China needs the US just as much as the other way around.

China manufacturing output is around $3T annually and US second at about $2.5T.

Without the trade between each other both are in the poo.
Or at war. Like france and Germany after a few years of depression.
Black Panther
14 Oct 2013, 10:18 AM


The Illuminati put the world ...
Illuminati? Am I on godlikeproductions? <checks internet address> Nope? <scratches head> <re-reads post>
Illuminati?
Edited by goldbug, 14 Oct 2013, 12:58 PM.
Shadow was hopelessly wrong about the Gold Bull Market.
What else is he wrong about?
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Kulganis
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goldbug
14 Oct 2013, 12:53 PM
Illuminati? Am I on godlikeproductions? <checks internet address> Nope? <scratches head> <re-reads post>
Illuminati?
Yeah, wasn't going to touch that one, There are some shadow organisations, but they're not all powerful or all knowing and they frell things up more often than not, but the Illuminati is just silly.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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miw
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Mike
14 Oct 2013, 10:07 AM
The GOP is about to cave in and give Obama the almost total surrender he seeks. Obama this time round has routed the republicans, after he got badly burnt in 2011.

Imagine if the Australian house of reps and senate passed a law to create Medicare, it is the law of the land. The opposition decides it does not like the outcome of it and decides to not fund the budget for the entire Australian government also increase the borrowing capacity of the Government. It is pure blackmail of the GOP to get Obama to cave in and remove Obamacare.

This time around the GOP has been smashed in the polls and many of its large donors (corporations) are telling the GOP to do a deal or risk losing their support and money.

Look at our last election here, labour had about 35% of the vote, under Gillard labour was polling around 30-33%. The GOP (republicans) are polling 28%, down 10% just prior to the Government shutdown. Unless the GOP do a deal very soon, they could have just lost the next Presidential election and handed the Democrats another term in office with a new president.

Obama is right on this issue, you cannot be held to blackmail to run the government on laws which are already legislated simply because the other side did not like the outcome. The GOP will now pay a heavy price as they bend over, part the checks and Obama inflicts his pain on them.
The Dems seem to have gotten greedy though. They are playing the same card as the GOP in trying to get sequester provisions repealed - they are also law of the land. I don't know if it is because they believe they can have an even more complete victory through a bit of brinkmanship, or if it is just simple overextension of their negotiating position.

The big thing on the line at the moment is not so much the next presidential election as the 2014 mid-term elections. The Dems would get control of the house for the first time in ages if the poll were held today.

Of course, under the Westminster system the poll would be held today. A government that cannot pass supply must fall.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Billy Jack
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The Duke of Brisbane Town

Yes but we don't have the Westminster system here. England does. And we aint nothing like England.

We have an Australian Parliamentary "Washminster" System. But here there would be a vote, yes.
Tell Billy Jack the Truth
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Pig Iron
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Bogan scum

Billy Jack
14 Oct 2013, 09:38 PM
Yes but we don't have the Westminster system here. England does. And we aint nothing like England.

We have an Australian Parliamentary "Washminster" System. But here there would be a vote, yes.
australia is a westminster system, maybe a bit less time practising that fake accent and more time educating yourself is in order.
I am the love child of Tony Abbott and Pauline Hanson
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Billy Jack
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The Duke of Brisbane Town

Friend, I try my best to sound like the locals up here, but after many, many years, I am who I am.

I think you need to start looking up Washminster and educating your self friend. It aint nothing like the Westminster, maybe it looks like it to you, but then again, you didnt write Our Great Constitution now did you? But then again, to a Bogan or an Aspie Cholo I guess it don't matter anyway.
Tell Billy Jack the Truth
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Pig Iron
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Bogan scum

Billy Jack
14 Oct 2013, 11:35 PM
Friend, I try my best to sound like the locals up here, but after many, many years, I am who I am.

I think you need to start looking up Washminster and educating your self friend. It aint nothing like the Westminster, maybe it looks like it to you, but then again, you didnt write Our Great Constitution now did you? But then again, to a Bogan or an Aspie Cholo I guess it don't matter anyway.
please tell me where you get this crap from so i can avoid ending up as retarded as you.
I am the love child of Tony Abbott and Pauline Hanson
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herbie
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Billy Jack
14 Oct 2013, 11:35 PM
Friend, I try my best to sound like the locals up here, but after many, many years, I am who I am.

I think you need to start looking up Washminster and educating your self friend. It aint nothing like the Westminster, maybe it looks like it to you, but then again, you didnt write Our Great Constitution now did you? But then again, to a Bogan or an Aspie Cholo I guess it don't matter anyway.
Translation for my mob 'up here' :

"Mate, I try me best ta sound like the local yokel type yobs up 'ere, but after many, many years, I is what I am.

I reckon ya need ta start checkin' out the Septic Tank System; 'N edumacatin' yaself bloke. It aint nothin' like that POM shit. Maybe it smells like it ta ya? But then again, you didn't write Our Great Fucked UP Thingy now did ya? But anyway, to an Aussie (including all youse jumped up Wogs), I reckon it don't matter anyhow."

Just tryin' ta be me normal natcharal 'elpful self ... :re:
Edited by herbie, 15 Oct 2013, 01:18 AM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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