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We got climate change wrong says IPCC - global warming estimates revised down; Global temperatures less sensitive to atmospheric carbon dioxide than previously thought
Topic Started: 16 Sep 2013, 01:42 PM (15,925 Views)
Count du Monet
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John F. Kennedy
8 Dec 2013, 10:46 PM
Count, I can't see you getting tenure as a climate professor with an attitude like that.
They seem intent on selling freaky disaster on the doorstep which is more politics than science. The funny thing is that the dangers of acidosis are ignored, perhaps because CO2 at 1000 ppmv is unimaginable to them. In this they make the same mistake as Arrhenius in imagining that industrial development has peaked.
The warnings concerning runaway CO2 rise the in atmosphere and the extinction of all complex animal life when the level reaches 5,000 ppmv are found in Germans works of a century ago. The only race of man then will be ghosts if there is such a thing. A level of 5,000 can be tolerated for 8 hours as long as the subject spends the rest of the day in a lower concentration CO2 atmosphere. A level of 40,000 ppmv will kill in minutes. Most office conference rooms reach a level of 1,000 ppmv plus.

It's useless for Science to engage in politics and indulge in Rhetoric. Logic and Rhetoric are two different things.
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Andrew Judd
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Count du Monet
9 Dec 2013, 10:41 AM
A level of 5,000 can be tolerated for 8 hours as long as the subject spends the rest of the day in a lower concentration CO2 atmosphere. A level of 40,000 ppmv will kill in minutes. Logic and Rhetoric are two different things.
5,000 parts of CO2 to 1,000,000 of air is a trivially small amount of CO2!

How on earth do you think people manage to get thru the night under the blankets on a cold night??
Edited by Andrew Judd, 9 Dec 2013, 01:50 PM.
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Count du Monet
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Andrew Judd
9 Dec 2013, 01:47 PM
Count du Monet
9 Dec 2013, 10:41 AM
A level of 5,000 can be tolerated for 8 hours as long as the subject spends the rest of the day in a lower concentration CO2 atmosphere. A level of 40,000 ppmv will kill in minutes. Logic and Rhetoric are two different things.
5,000 parts of CO2 to 1,000,000 of air is a trivially small amount of CO2!

How on earth do you think people manage to get thru the night under the blankets on a cold night??
Small is a relative statement. 5,000 ppmv is approx 0.5% CO2 content.

According to case studies levels as high as high 3000 ppmv by volume can be reached in closed bedrooms. As for me I always have my mouth and nose exposed to the open air even when wrapped in blankets on a cold night....otherwise I begin to feel uncomfortable. The issue is constant 5000 ppmv is the problem, not part day cycle. Basically the body will flush excess CO2 in fresh air. However there are arguments about the health effects of multi hour exposure to higher levels of CO2.

This is the pH range for mammals.

Quote:
 
Blood pH is regulated to stay within the narrow range of 7.35 to 7.45, making it slightly basic.[8][9] Blood that has a pH below 7.35 is too acidic, whereas blood pH above 7.45 is too basic. Blood pH, partial pressure of oxygen (pO2), partial pressure of carbon dioxide (pCO2), and HCO3− are carefully regulated by a number of homeostatic mechanisms, which exert their influence principally through the respiratory system and the urinary system in order to control the acid-base balance and respiration.


You need to look up the relevant details regarding acidosis. You seem unaware of them.

Going back to the Devonian period complex life first appeared on land when ambient CO2 levels fell to 2000 to 2500 ppmv, so levels above that will most likely mean the extinction of most land animal species.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/co2-comfort-level-d_1024.html

Quote:
 
Normal CO2 Levels

The effects of increased CO2 levels on adults at good health can be summarized:

normal outdoor level: 350 - 450 ppm
acceptable levels: < 600 ppm
complaints of stiffness and odors: 600 - 1000 ppm
ASHRAE and OSHA standards: 1000 ppm
general drowsiness: 1000 - 2500 ppm
adverse health effects expected: 2500 - 5000 ppm
maximum allowed concentration within a 8 hour working period: 5000 ppm

The levels above are quite normal and maximum levels may occasionally happen from time to time.


That's for mammals. Birds can live merrily at higher levels, but then birds have been seen flying at 30,000 feet.


Edited by Count du Monet, 9 Dec 2013, 02:50 PM.
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Andrew Judd
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Count du Monet
9 Dec 2013, 02:15 PM
Small is a relative statement. 5,000 ppmv is approx 0.5% CO2 content.

According to case studies levels as high as high 3000 ppmv by volume can be reached in closed bedrooms. As for me I always have my mouth and nose exposed to the open air even when wrapped in blankets on a cold night....otherwise I begin to feel uncomfortable. The issue is constant 5000 ppmv is the problem, not part day cycle. Basically the body will flush excess CO2 in fresh air. However there are arguments about the health effects of multi hour exposure to higher levels of CO2.

This is the pH range for mammals.




You need to look up the relevant details regarding acidosis. You seem unaware of them.

Going back to the Devonian period complex life first appeared on land when ambient CO2 levels fell to 2000 to 2500 ppmv, so levels above that will most likely mean the extinction of most land animal species.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/co2-comfort-level-d_1024.html




That's for mammals. Birds can live merrily at higher levels, but then birds have been seen flying at 30,000 feet.

Right, lets all be taught to be terrified of CO2!

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11170&page=49

:lol
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Count du Monet
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Andrew Judd
9 Dec 2013, 03:15 PM
Right, lets all be taught to be terrified of CO2!

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11170&page=49

:lol
A few hours exposure to 30,000 ppmv requires several days to recover from. A person survives exposure by hyperventilation.

The instant death effects are not the concern of the argument. But rather chronic acidosis at the concerned levels. Why are you missing that? I said check on acidosis. Death at 50,000 ppmv CO2 is due to respiratory failure not acidosis.

I can teach you fear of water, I'll hold you head under water for a while. How does that sound? :re:

Edited by Count du Monet, 9 Dec 2013, 03:37 PM.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
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Andrew Judd
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Count du Monet
9 Dec 2013, 03:29 PM
A few hours exposure to 30,000 ppmv requires several days to recover from. A person survives exposure by hyperventilation.

The instant death effects are not the concern of the argument. But rather chronic acidosis at the concerned levels. Why are you missing that? I said check on acidosis. Death at 50,000 ppmv CO2 is due to respiratory failure not acidosis.

I can teach you fear of water, I'll hold you head under water for a while. How does that sound? :re:
some people die in the winter when it gets colder, and in fact tens of thousands of old people die in the UK in the winter who would live longer if they had warmer houses.

Very very few people, who are otherwise healthy, are going to die from a few hours exposure to 5% CO2
Edited by Andrew Judd, 9 Dec 2013, 04:25 PM.
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Count du Monet
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Andrew Judd
9 Dec 2013, 04:21 PM
some people die in the winter when it gets colder, and in fact tens of thousands of old people die in the UK in the winter who would live longer if they had warmer houses.

Very very few people, who are otherwise healthy, are going to die from a few hours exposure to 5% CO2
Maybe you can't read. I said before we are not talking about immediate death............will I have to repeat this yet again? We are talking about what happens with prolonged acidosis. Levels of 1,000 to 2,000 ppmv will cause the extinction of most mammals and probably humans as well.

Did you miss this?

Posted Image
Edited by Count du Monet, 9 Dec 2013, 04:46 PM.
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Andrew Judd
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Count du Monet
9 Dec 2013, 10:41 AM
A level of 40,000 ppmv will kill in minutes.
As ever talking to you is a hideous ordeal

:bye:
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Count du Monet
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Andrew Judd
9 Dec 2013, 05:57 PM
As ever talking to you is a hideous ordeal

:bye:
But you find that with just about everybody?
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Andrew Judd
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Count du Monet
9 Dec 2013, 06:00 PM
But you find that with just about everybody?
No. Just happens when it involves nutters like you.

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