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We got climate change wrong says IPCC - global warming estimates revised down; Global temperatures less sensitive to atmospheric carbon dioxide than previously thought
Topic Started: 16 Sep 2013, 01:42 PM (15,933 Views)
Count du Monet
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Well global warming with increasing CO2 is a patent scientific fact. Unfortunately a lot of pro GW people are grandstanding and trying to make a name for themselves and are making claims which are exaggerated.

I've got books translated from German in the 1920's that warned about the risks associated with increasing CO2. The Germans also made the link between smoking and lung cancer in the 1920's as well. Both these propositions were ignored by the Anglo world until post WW2.

However I don't think the world will do anything about it, and with increasing industrial activity the release of CO2 will increase. The first danger level will be when we get to 550 ppmbv and when we get to double that the red light will be flashing. In between these ranges it will still take thousands of years for the icecaps to melt. But a factor that is ignored is the health issues mammals will face with higher acidity of blood when we go over 1000 ppmbv. Once 5000 ppmbv is reached then life as we know it except for single celled organisms will go extinct.
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Andrew Judd
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Count du Monet
8 Nov 2013, 03:31 PM
Well global warming with increasing CO2 is a patent scientific fact. Unfortunately a lot of pro GW people are grandstanding and trying to make a name for themselves and are making claims which are exaggerated.

I've got books translated from German in the 1920's that warned about the risks associated with increasing CO2. The Germans also made the link between smoking and lung cancer in the 1920's as well. Both these propositions were ignored by the Anglo world until post WW2.

However I don't think the world will do anything about it, and with increasing industrial activity the release of CO2 will increase. The first danger level will be when we get to 550 ppmbv and when we get to double that the red light will be flashing. In between these ranges it will still take thousands of years for the icecaps to melt. But a factor that is ignored is the health issues mammals will face with higher acidity of blood when we go over 1000 ppmbv. Once 5000 ppmbv is reached then life as we know it except for single celled organisms will go extinct.
Dont forget the fish! Then there is the birds and bees.

The acid rain on the plants!

The toxicity of CO2 cannot be underestimated! it is only because Coca Cola is funding so many prestigious university medical hospitals that we are still putting this enormously toxic gas in our childrens drinks.

Pets in homes should be banned. We need better climate control in offices and homes including CO2 scrubbers

Please send without delay for our full product range of C02 absorbing filters and ventillation systems.

Sign our petition to get people to stop breathing so we can save the planet!
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Pig Iron
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Count du Monet
8 Nov 2013, 03:31 PM
Well global warming with increasing CO2 is a patent scientific fact.
no it isn't. CO2 lags warming in most cases.
Count du Monet
8 Nov 2013, 03:31 PM
The first danger level will be when we get to 550 ppmbv
you mean ppmv right?
Count du Monet
8 Nov 2013, 03:31 PM
The first danger level will be when we get to 550 ppmbv
warming has not progressed anywhere near to what your models predicted, it's taken 60 years for it to rise 90ppmv so conveniently for you you won't be around to see that prediction fail.
Edited by Pig Iron, 8 Nov 2013, 03:54 PM.
I am the love child of Tony Abbott and Pauline Hanson
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Count du Monet
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Andrew Judd
8 Nov 2013, 03:48 PM
We need better climate control in offices and homes including CO2 scrubbers





Well you can tolerate high levels of CO2 for varying periods of time. It takes 40,000 ppmv to kill you in short order. The important point is part of day you get "fresh air" so you flush the CO2 acidity from your system. But having 1000 ppmv as a permanent feature comes with increasing health issues. There is no complex form of life as we know it that can tolerate 5000 ppmv as a permanent fixture.

Quote:
 
you mean ppmv right?


Sorry, yes I included the b in the shorthand by mistake. Parts per million by Volume.

Quote:
 
no it isn't. CO2 lags warming in most cases.


Sorry, CO2 is key element in global warming. We've always had Global warming because of CO2, otherwise the ambient surface temp of the Earth would minus 19 C rather than the current 15 C. Otherwise instead of being 20 C in Melbourne today it would be about minus 24 C.

Quote:
 
warming has not progressed anywhere near to what your models predicted, it's taken 60 years for it to rise 90ppmv so conveniently for you you won't be around to see that prediction fail.


The problem with that is industrial activity and CO2 release is increasing. Arrhenius calculated that it would 3000 years of the industrial activity of his time around y 1900 to get to 550 ppmv. Over the next 60 years a heuristic guess will see an increase of 180 ppmv. So we'll be over 550 ppmv by the end of the century. Arrhenius believed 550 ppmv would be enough to prevent the next ice age and would be a good thing. His guess work is almost as good as anything they have come up with present day.

But yes there is no 100% accurate climate model. Just doing a model for a hurricane takes 6 months of runtime on the most powerful super computer.
Edited by Count du Monet, 8 Nov 2013, 04:59 PM.
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Andrew Judd
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Count du Monet
8 Nov 2013, 04:57 PM
CO2 is key element in global warming. We've always had Global warming because of CO2, otherwise the ambient surface temp of the Earth would minus 19 C rather than the current 15 C. Otherwise instead of being 20 C in Melbourne today it would be about minus 24 C.


If you connect two low temperature freezers together and place a bucket of water in each, the warmer lower termperature freezer will become water/frost free. You will get that result because there will always be a near equilibrium transport of water vapour between the two freezers that is always more strongly happening in the direction of warm to cold.

Your theory is proven to be false.
Edited by Andrew Judd, 8 Nov 2013, 07:19 PM.
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Pig Iron
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Count du Monet
8 Nov 2013, 04:57 PM
Sorry, CO2 is key element in global warming. We've always had Global warming because of CO2, otherwise the ambient surface temp of the Earth would minus 19 C rather than the current 15 C. Otherwise instead of being 20 C in Melbourne today it would be about minus 24 C.
i'm curious to see an actual link to that because a google doesn't present anything.

from memory the sun and water vapour play the biggest role
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goldbug
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Shadow
8 Nov 2013, 10:14 AM
goldbug
8 Nov 2013, 10:09 AM

Then there is the ice core data scientists have collected.
Ice cores don't tell us about the extent of sea ice coverage.
The paper, entitled "Recent Antarctic Peninsula warming relative to Holocene climate and ice – shelf history" and authored by Robert Mulvaney and colleagues of the British Antarctic Survey ( Nature , 2012, doi:10.1038/nature11391),reports two recent natural warming cycles, one around 1500 AD and another around 400 AD, measured from isotope (deuterium) concentrations in ice cores bored adjacent to recent breaks in the ice shelf in northeast Antarctica. ….
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/10/24/a-new-record-the-most-sea-ice-in-antarctica-in-30-years-by-extent-and-by-volume/


I know, I know, it's hard to imagine how looking at old ice blocks can tell you anything, but scientists have found that if they drill right beside the edge of the ice sheet, and discover stuff in the ice that has been trapped there for hundreds of thousands of years, then they can surmise that the ice cover in that region has been there for a long long time.


Here, this is a bit less scientific. And it's from the Australian government too.
Happy reading :)

Ice core evidence for 20% decline in Antarctic sea ice extent since the 1950s
...Through analysis of ice cores from Law Dome, we have discovered that the amount of MSA in the core is related to the maximum extent of sea ice in that region.
http://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-us/publications/australian-antarctic-magazine/2001-2005/issue-6-autumn-2004/feature/ice-core-evidence-for-20-decline-in-antarctic-sea-ice-extent-since-the-1950s

P.S. Don't confuse the arctic with antarctica, they are literally poles apart.

Edited by goldbug, 8 Nov 2013, 08:26 PM.
Shadow was hopelessly wrong about the Gold Bull Market.
What else is he wrong about?
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Count du Monet
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Pig Iron
8 Nov 2013, 07:38 PM
i'm curious to see an actual link to that because a google doesn't present anything.

from memory the sun and water vapour play the biggest role
They call it the greenhouse effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect



At lower altitudes in the tropics Water Vapor is the main Greenhouse gas, wherever you have moist air. In places like the polar regions and at altitude, have dry air and very little water vapor. The effect of water vapor is very noticeable when the sun breaks through on a foggy morning.

The reason CO2 is the key element is because the freezing point of CO2 is minus 78.5 C. CO2 is the reason that it is warm enough to keep water vapor in the air, otherwise almost all the water vapor would turn into ice at the surface. As the amount of CO2 increases the temperature, then the amount of water vapor the air holds also increases. This is called the feedback loop.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
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Pig Iron
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Count du Monet
8 Nov 2013, 09:44 PM
They call it the greenhouse effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect



At lower altitudes in the tropics Water Vapor is the main Greenhouse gas, wherever you have moist air. In places like the polar regions and at altitude, have dry air and very little water vapor. The effect of water vapor is very noticeable when the sun breaks through on a foggy morning.

The reason CO2 is the key element is because the freezing point of CO2 is minus 78.5 C. CO2 is the reason that it is warm enough to keep water vapor in the air, otherwise almost all the water vapor would turn into ice at the surface. As the amount of CO2 increases the temperature, then the amount of water vapor the air holds also increases. This is called the feedback loop.
really, wikipedia?
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Count du Monet
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Pig Iron
8 Nov 2013, 10:17 PM
really, wikipedia?
Is that too complex for you, maybe you'd like a simpler source than that?

Quote:
 
If an ideal thermally conductive blackbody was the same distance from the Sun as the Earth is, it would have a temperature of about 5.3 °C. However, since the Earth reflects about 30%[5][6] of the incoming sunlight, this idealized planet's effective temperature (the temperature of a blackbody that would emit the same amount of radiation) would be about −18 °C.[7][8] The surface temperature of this hypothetical planet is 33 °C below Earth's actual surface temperature of approximately 14 °C.[9] The mechanism that produces this difference between the actual surface temperature and the effective temperature is due to the atmosphere and is known as the greenhouse effect.[10]
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