Swedish property bubble vs Australian house prices; Sweden looking at option of forcing households to amortize their mortgages to prevent debt loads rising
"They" are generally older people who bought the "Property is the best investment" line. Though "they" have convinced some younger people too. You might call them Bulls. But many younger people are waking up and are thinking for themselves. This is the biggest threat to the retirement funds that successive governments have decreed to have the most yield. I also recognise, I'm sure many people do, that the various governments win greatly from increasing prices, seeing as taxes are tacked to values. As do banks, who receive ever more money from the interest on ever larger mortgages.
So "Buy now or miss the boat" and other such bull remarks should not be trusted by that same measure?
Agism is very different from racism, agism is blaming people for mistakes or successes they've had, based on their choices. Racism is blaming people for the chance of being born with different coloured skin, through no fault of their own. Racism is deplorable, agism isn't.
The burden we have with the boomer generation is far far more burdensome than the boomers had with their parents. The boomers have voted themselves bigger social securities and lower taxes which they expect their children to pay for.
It used to be that the elders lived with one of their children, boomers shipped their parents off to retirement homes, now they've built entire villages that stipulate only people over 55 live there.
It's boomers who are nimby's, preventing high density living in their precious suburbs. They usually proclaim that high density property will spoil the view (a really shallow short sighted standpoint) but it's really about the lowering of the value of resale on their retirement package.
Nimby's also prevent the construction of many renewable energy technologies for the same reasons.
It is mostly boomers who shipped jobs off to high population low cost countries to increase their profits. We could have had marvellous technological factories producing high quality products for distribution around the world, but the short sighted nature of boomers prevented this.
Of course past retirees were not represented by their governments, boomers saw them as a burden, something to be shoved under carpets. It is the retirement of boomers that have had the most representation.
Obviously, not all boomers share this guilt, some are actually decent people.
I have not bought anything from "unscrupulous charlatans". I have a thoughtful existence that my parents (boomers) instilled in me, this thoughtful existence has led me to these conclusions through experience.
Most of those comments about boomers are simply incorrect.
You have no burden from the boomer generation - your parents have probably ensured that they will not be a financial burden on you and they have probably made many sacrifices to see you through a tertiary education. Is that not enough for you?
You make silly wild claims about boomers getting the best period in history for property price growth and this is just rubbish. Gen X were the new buyers in 2000-2001 not boomers. Gen Y can buy today at low interest rates and prices that have not grown in years. Believe me, a kid who bought in Sydney last year or the year before is doing very well thank you out of her/his property investment. Sydney might see 20% growth next year if the market continues like this.
Surely you must remember how much your parents and our generation had to struggle in the 90s, why are you so down on them that the market came good for them again?
Every new generation goes through this, it is just a carry through from the teenage year's rebellion and the self righteousness of youth. Most young people go out and start to support themselves and buy their own homes etc and grow out of this stage, thank goodness.
We truly grew up with nothing and to be honest this whining by you guys that our generation somehow had it better that you is childish nonsense.
Lady Luck wears overalls, you young bears should put yours on and make a go of your own opportunities, and stop whining about the opportunities others took.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993 The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
Sweetdish the house you showed us was AUD $3.77m, hardly the price of a semi in the Eastern suburbs. I wish you well with whatever you decide, personally I loved Sweden and Stockholm is an amazing city IMHO.
Exactly!
That proves both my points.
1) If this is the second most expensive house in Stockholm then as you can see, house prices are not really comparable. The most expensive house is currently at about $5M and that is almost unheard of. Thats because the square meter price in Stockholm is considerably less. You can buy houses/land in Sydney for $30M plus and then some.
2) It also shows that the cost of the mortgage is much much lower due to interest rates and some other factors.
As a result of much lower prices and interest rates that are about half of what they are here, you can buy much better properties in Sweden for the same money and on the same salary. In my estimation, the costs of owning in Stockholm are about 25% of what they are in Sydney.
So I can buy a run down Semi in the east with no back yard or the second most expensive house in Stockholm in the most prestigious suburb for about the same monthly cost...
1) If this is the second most expensive house in Stockholm then as you can see, house prices are not really comparable. The most expensive house is currently at about $5M and that is almost unheard of. Thats because the square meter price in Stockholm is considerably less. You can buy houses/land in Sydney for $30M plus and then some.
2) It also shows that the cost of the mortgage is much much lower due to interest rates and some other factors.
As a result of much lower prices and interest rates that are about half of what they are here, you can buy much better properties in Sweden for the same money and on the same salary. In my estimation, the costs of owning in Stockholm are about 25% of what they are in Sydney.
So I can buy a run down Semi in the east with no back yard or the second most expensive house in Stockholm in the most prestigious suburb for about the same monthly cost...
Glad you liked it BTW : )
Sweden seems like a shithole from what a have read ...
A beautiful city, just be sure to avoid the Swedes ...
"Naively, I was expecting a warm reception in Sweden; similar to when I lived in France, Italy, and Switzerland. Instead, I met a people whose personalities are as icy as the winterish region they call home.
Swedish people are like over-hyped celebrities. Like Paris Hilton or Lindsey Lohan, they are beautiful and glamorous from afar, but when you get up close, you realize there’s not much substance, they’re rather boring, and you wonder why you were so fascinated with them to begin with. And, after getting to know them more, you realize that they also have some pretty disgusting habits."
http://swedenson.com/"Dude – I’ve lived in Sweden for 15 years. Face it, Swedes are the rudest, lowest class folks on the planet. You can come up with umpteen excuses for why they are rude. It doesn’t change the fact that these folks are the most thoughtless, low-class nobodies walking planet earth today. I’ve lived all around the world and could never have conceived of a society of folks so unhappy that they actually revel in seeing their fellows suffer. It still shocks me to this day. The best I can do is pity them."
1) If this is the second most expensive house in Stockholm then as you can see, house prices are not really comparable. The most expensive house is currently at about $5M and that is almost unheard of. Thats because the square meter price in Stockholm is considerably less. You can buy houses/land in Sydney for $30M plus and then some.
2) It also shows that the cost of the mortgage is much much lower due to interest rates and some other factors.
As a result of much lower prices and interest rates that are about half of what they are here, you can buy much better properties in Sweden for the same money and on the same salary. In my estimation, the costs of owning in Stockholm are about 25% of what they are in Sydney.
So I can buy a run down Semi in the east with no back yard or the second most expensive house in Stockholm in the most prestigious suburb for about the same monthly cost...
Glad you liked it BTW : )
Sweetdish, Sydney may have some very expensive real estate but the median house price is lower than that for Stockholm and there is no way a semi costs $4m in the eastern suburbs. I wish it did, I am selling a 4 bed 3 bath plus study federation detached house on almost 500sqm in Coogee and we would be delighted with just over half that price
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993 The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
Most of those comments about boomers are simply incorrect.
You have no burden from the boomer generation - your parents have probably ensured that they will not be a financial burden on you and they have probably made many sacrifices to see you through a tertiary education. Is that not enough for you?
You make silly wild claims about boomers getting the best period in history for property price growth and this is just rubbish. Gen X were the new buyers in 2000-2001 not boomers. Gen Y can buy today at low interest rates and prices that have not grown in years. Believe me, a kid who bought in Sydney last year or the year before is doing very well thank you out of her/his property investment. Sydney might see 20% growth next year if the market continues like this.
Surely you must remember how much your parents and our generation had to struggle in the 90s, why are you so down on them that the market came good for them again?
Every new generation goes through this, it is just a carry through from the teenage year's rebellion and the self righteousness of youth. Most young people go out and start to support themselves and buy their own homes etc and grow out of this stage, thank goodness.
We truly grew up with nothing and to be honest this whining by you guys that our generation somehow had it better that you is childish nonsense.
Lady Luck wears overalls, you young bears should put yours on and make a go of your own opportunities, and stop whining about the opportunities others took.
Heh, I left home early, because I couldn't live in the town my parents chose to live in, I am putting myself through university, I will be paying it off for a long time.
The Whitlam government abolished university fees on the 1st of January 1974, now we again have to pay for the privilege and compete with international students, another wonderful idea. Increased population leading to larger amounts of student only accomodation and more people looking for part time work.
In 1989 the Hawke government set up HECS, which charged $1800 across the board, in 1996 Howard set up a tiered HECS system that charged more for courses that were perceived to grant employment that earned higher incomes, in 2005 university fees were deregulated.
We went from free university in 1974 to a HECS (these days HELP) system that is a loan to be paid back over the course of one's career.
I don't know about you, but my parents definitely didn't struggle in the 90's, my father had a fabrication business and my mother is a nurse, they had 2 children, they owned a 1.5 acre property and have recently moved to a nice new place closer to the hospital, my father is not in the best of health.
Prices have been growing for many years, I can't believe you claim they haven't. Gen-X have many of the same qualities as their boomer parents, it's just that there are fewer of them, so they don't get as much flack.
Low interest rates aren't the beez neez, the only saving available to us now, is buying properties, as low interest rates have routed our saving capacities in almost any other asset. Low interest rates only make sense when you're buying assets that cost bucket loads. What happens when interest rates rise? as they surely must.
The burden, is the ongoing budget deficits. All to pay for increasing numbers of people going onto a pension system that was originally designed for war widows. The pension was recently revamped, not because of the deplorable way it treated current pensioners, but because the current working class wanted something better for themselves, and they had to vote it in while they were in power.
You didn't grow up with nothing, not in the least, your parents grew up with nothing, you grew up with increased stability after two world wars, relatively low amounts of debt, you had free education and vast employment opportunities, which your generation took advantage of and then looked at your bank accounts and said "We want more". Companies and businesses of today are run, mostly by boomers, and they see only the bottom line, the profits that you can't take into the next world (not that I believe in such rubbish).
The rise in businesses that have social impact in their sights are the ones built by your children.
Yours is the generation of drug crazed hippies, who coddled your children, hovering over them, giving them increased responsibilities, telling them that they were special and could be whatever they wanted to be when they grew up, no wonder Gen-Y are so disconnected from society, you gave them unfounded hope in a world that is increasingly crowded and violent.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry
"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
1) If this is the second most expensive house in Stockholm then as you can see, house prices are not really comparable. The most expensive house is currently at about $5M and that is almost unheard of. Thats because the square meter price in Stockholm is considerably less. You can buy houses/land in Sydney for $30M plus and then some.
2) It also shows that the cost of the mortgage is much much lower due to interest rates and some other factors.
As a result of much lower prices and interest rates that are about half of what they are here, you can buy much better properties in Sweden for the same money and on the same salary. In my estimation, the costs of owning in Stockholm are about 25% of what they are in Sydney.
So I can buy a run down Semi in the east with no back yard or the second most expensive house in Stockholm in the most prestigious suburb for about the same monthly cost...
Glad you liked it BTW : )
Sweetdish, Sydney may have some very expensive real estate but the median house price is lower than that for Stockholm and there is no way a semi costs $4m in the eastern suburbs. I wish it did, I am selling a 4 bed 3 bath plus study federation detached house on almost 500sqm in Coogee and we would be delighted with just over half that price
Just where are you getting your information?
What do you know about Sweden. Fuck all! stop bullshitting.
Sweetdish is Swedish.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?
The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly. Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
Heh, I left home early, because I couldn't live in the town my parents chose to live in, I am putting myself through university, I will be paying it off for a long time.
The Whitlam government abolished university fees on the 1st of January 1974, now we again have to pay for the privilege and compete with international students, another wonderful idea. Increased population leading to larger amounts of student only accomodation and more people looking for part time work.
In 1989 the Hawke government set up HECS, which charged $1800 across the board, in 1996 Howard set up a tiered HECS system that charged more for courses that were perceived to grant employment that earned higher incomes, in 2005 university fees were deregulated.
We went from free university in 1974 to a HECS (these days HELP) system that is a loan to be paid back over the course of one's career.
I don't know about you, but my parents definitely didn't struggle in the 90's, my father had a fabrication business and my mother is a nurse, they had 2 children, they owned a 1.5 acre property and have recently moved to a nice new place closer to the hospital, my father is not in the best of health.
Prices have been growing for many years, I can't believe you claim they haven't. Gen-X have many of the same qualities as their boomer parents, it's just that there are fewer of them, so they don't get as much flack.
Low interest rates aren't the beez neez, the only saving available to us now, is buying properties, as low interest rates have routed our saving capacities in almost any other asset. Low interest rates only make sense when you're buying assets that cost bucket loads. What happens when interest rates rise? as they surely must.
The burden, is the ongoing budget deficits. All to pay for increasing numbers of people going onto a pension system that was originally designed for war widows. The pension was recently revamped, not because of the deplorable way it treated current pensioners, but because the current working class wanted something better for themselves, and they had to vote it in while they were in power.
You didn't grow up with nothing, not in the least, your parents grew up with nothing, you grew up with increased stability after two world wars, relatively low amounts of debt, you had free education and vast employment opportunities, which your generation took advantage of and then looked at your bank accounts and said "We want more". Companies and businesses of today are run, mostly by boomers, and they see only the bottom line, the profits that you can't take into the next world (not that I believe in such rubbish).
The rise in businesses that have social impact in their sights are the ones built by your children.
Yours is the generation of drug crazed hippies, who coddled your children, hovering over them, giving them increased responsibilities, telling them that they were special and could be whatever they wanted to be when they grew up, no wonder Gen-Y are so disconnected from society, you gave them unfounded hope in a world that is increasingly crowded and violent.
Sorry Kulganis but that is just one huge whine. The truth is that gen Y does not know what opportunities lie ahead,IMHO I think they will vastly surpass that of our generation. In your gloomy view you think you will not have any opportunities.
When I was young we complained about environmental degradation, the unjust Vietnam war, aparthied and injustice, this young generation of bears on this forum complains about house prices [shakes head]
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993 The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
Baby boomers are usually defined as those born between 1946 and 1961 and who are now aged between 45 and 60.1
The first boomers are now starting to retire, a phenomenon with far-reaching social and policy implications explored in this report.
Sometimes termed the ‘lucky generation’, the baby boomers were the first generation to grow up in a reasonably affluent and largely peaceful society. According to Mackay, the boomers grew up with the belief in prosperity as a ‘birthright’.
They are renowned as the generation that, when young, led dramatic social changes in the 60s and 70s through the civil rights, human rights and the feminist movements and the sexual revolution. The liberating potential of these social movements was first enjoyed by this generation.
They were also dubbed ‘the protest generation’ for their campaigns against the Vietnam War and the apartheid regime in South Africa.
It was always the case that the boomers who actively participated in those movements constituted a small proportion of the generation, but the spirit of social renewal pervaded the generation and transformed Western society.
It is worth pointing out that the leaders of modern conservatism in politics and the media, who have worked at winding back many of the social gains of the protest generation, are themselves baby boomers.
According to Hugh Mackay, the combination of growing prosperity and the threat of the Cold War created a generation ‘obsessed with the idea that ‘we’re not here for a long time, we’re here for a good time’. This ethos was manifested in the need for ‘instant gratification’, and the focus on self-betterment and personal freedom led some commentators to nickname the boomers the ‘me generation’.
This emphasis on the short term meant that the boomers were ‘destined to become poor planners, unenthusiastic savers but voracious consumers’.
The boomers were also the first generation to grow up under the influence of the electronic media - television was introduced in Australia in 1956 - which meant that they were more quickly and more heavily influenced by cultural trends abroad, especially in the UK and the USA. They took a global perspective with many travelling overseas to experience different cultures.
The size of the boomer generation, along with their radical demands, saw them emerge as the most important generation of the second half of the twentieth century and they have become accustomed to setting the social and cultural agenda in the West.
According to Riggs and Turner, the boomers ‘reshaped many social norms, including family composition and living arrangements, assisted by enhanced contraceptive choices, secularisation, and the women’s movement’ and have a reputation for maintaining their cultural and social influence through the decades as they age. Thus they have progressively redefined marriage, parenthood, middle age and menopause and are now turning their attention to old age and retirement.
Having created the cult of youth, it is not surprising that the boomers now approach old age with a mixture of fear, denial and bravado. For Mackay, boomers avoid acting their age at any costs. The looming ‘redundancy’ of the boomers is having farreaching implications for social trends, commercial strategy and government retirement policies.
Boomers as a group are politically powerful, and most institutions in Australia and similar countries remain dominated by them. In the words of a report by Demos, a UK think tank:
The baby boomers have always been seen as a deeply symbolic generation - swollen by a surge of post-war optimism, reaching adulthood in tandem with the 1960s and a new set of social freedoms, consumer innovations and political conflicts. For many of them, challenging received wisdom is deeply embedded in their own self-image. As they age, we should not expect this characteristic to be diminished.
However, the claims of boomers to special cultural and social significance are being increasingly challenged by the generations following on.
As Generation Xers, born between 1961 and 1976, assume positions of influence in the media, politics, business, universities and cultural institutions, boomers will see their assumption that what they think matters eroded.
According to Mackay, Gen Xers are committed to their own freedom and criticise what they see as the ‘conformist behaviour’ of the boomers. For Rebecca Huntley, ‘the grand, youthful ambitions of the Boomers no longer seem relevant or realistic’, and just as Generations Y and X had to adjust to the world created by the boomers, so now do the boomers have to adjust to a world created by their successors. Consequently, the boomers have had to re-evaluate their ‘iconoclastic view of themselves’, at the vanguard of social change. Nowhere is this criticism thrust upon us with more vigour than in the work of Ryan Heath. In his book Please Just F* Off… It’s Our Turn Now, Heath argues.
The Boomers might see themselves as permanently young and cool, but their cadre has entered its cranky conservative phase. It’s time to bump these Baby Bleaters and their ceaseless cries for more milk, and their figureheads who have all the originality and sophistication of bratty two-year-olds. It’s not that they don’t have anything to contribute – it just shouldn’t be the same contribution in the same roles as they’ve been giving for decades. It’s time for them to move on.
Even the war generation, the one that preceded the boomers and now in retirement, seem to take a jaundiced view of the boomers, with many seeing them as spoilt and self obsessed. In their study on attitudes to retirement, Olsberg and Winters found that many older respondents feel resentful towards the baby boomers, believing that they experienced good fortune and should be prepared to make some sacrifices.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry
"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
What do you know about Sweden. Fuck all! stop bullshitting.
Sweetdish is Swedish.
Ha ha Veritas you got your facts wrong not me, I have previously sent all the data and the sources to Sweetdish. I know he is Swedish, but he is simply incorrect to claim Stockholm and Sweden has cheaper house prices to Sydney and Australia.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993 The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
What do you know about Sweden. Fuck all! stop bullshitting.
Sweetdish is Swedish.
Ha ha Veritas you got your facts wrong not me, I have previously sent all the data and the sources to Sweetdish. I know he is Swedish, but he is simply incorrect to claim Stockholm and Sweden has cheaper house prices to Sydney and Australia.
Neither of those links compare Sweden with Australia.
Did you send Sweetdish some shite from numbeo?
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?
The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly. Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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