Goldbugs... what will you do with your gold? What's the point of holding gold?; Will you eventually convert it into real money, or just hoard it for ever?
The reason I have a "tiny box" is because only an amateur would invest outside these parameters, that's the harsh reality.
I disagree I think you'll find most "serious investors" think and look outside the box and its the amateurs to stay inside it, probably due to lack of knowledge, want to get that knowledge and fear..
As an example, when one area shows no opportunity for a developer/builder/investor do you think he just cowers into a ball and say that's it, there is no opportunity - or do you think they look outside the box?
I am looking at Brisbane at the moment because CQ has had its run for now, there is limited opportunity for me there at present, so now I am looking here - I am looking outside the box. When I first started doing CQ it was because there was no opportunity in Brisbane for me. Various areas run at different times, Sydney is different to Brisbane is different to Darwin is different to........
Ignore posts by The Whole Truth · View Post · End Ignoring The forum fuckwit goes RRRAAARRRGGHHhhh - But not a fuck was given..................by anyone.
You have your box, I have my box, Frank has his box.
There are good returns to be made in most of the boxes, and we do well to stay inside our particular areas of expertise, or at least get expertise in new areas before going into them.
Personally I don't in general do detached houses or regional areas, and I stay right away from short-stay accommodation or anything where someone holds management rights. Does it mean there aren't good opportunities outside my parameters? Of course not.
MIW,
This is very true, I guess the point I'm making is, property is largely speculative, getting a property that doesn't require negative gearing in a good location is very hard to come by.
In my opinion, at this moment in time, speculating in precious metals is better value (and the better of 2 evils) in that;
If I want a property in a good location (for consistent rent, less risk of depreciation), I have to negative gear in the hope of appreciation or by gold in the hope of appreciation.
To save you wasting everyones time yet again, may I remind you of this thread where you and your idiot mates had your arse's handed to you on a plate with a side of FAIL. http://australianpropertyforum.com/topic/9948055/1/
I'm not wasting anyones time frank, I'm enlightening a new member as to who you are, but I think most people figue that out pretty quick by themselves don't they. As for Fails, your the one that nearly bought a flooded house in Brisbane recently. Did your research at the last moment there didn't you. And got away by the skin of your teeth. Next time put the adress into nearmap and have a look at it on the date of the 2011 flood before you waste your petrol driving around. That's what all the savey investors down in the big smoke do frank.
Shadow was hopelessly wrong about the Gold Bull Market. What else is he wrong about?
I'm not wasting anyones time frank, I'm enlightening a new member as to who you are, but I think most people figue that out pretty quick by themselves don't they.
Sure you are You are making comment again about areas and things you know little if anything about
Quote:
As for Fails, your the one that nearly bought a flooded house in Brisbane recently.
Nearly bought? Not really, I did my research
Quote:
Did your research at the last moment there didn't you.
When properties are a good buy you have no time to dick around, so that means last minute research, which I did
Quote:
And got away by the skin of your teeth.
What an idiot Nothing was signed you fool, I did my research first
Quote:
Next time put the adress into nearmap and have a look at it on the date of the 2011 flood
Is that the nearmap that doesn't work unless you pay for it? And how long would that have taken to activate?
Savy investors have other ways of getting data faster, either by looking yourself which I did and looking at aerial photography for FREE which I did or even looking at free floodmaps from council.
While you are dicking around waiting for nearmap to be activated the savy investor has been in and bought the bargain out from under you (insert picture of poor goldbug crying because he missed out again)
Quote:
before you waste your petrol driving around.
It wasnt a waste at all Savy investors will like to get a lay of the land and see what the area is like instead of relying on a picture from space
Quote:
That's what all the savey investors down in the big smoke do frank.
Ignore posts by The Whole Truth · View Post · End Ignoring The forum fuckwit goes RRRAAARRRGGHHhhh - But not a fuck was given..................by anyone.
As for Fails, your the one that nearly bought a flooded house in Brisbane recently.
Nearly bought? Not really, I did my research
Quote:
Did your research at the last moment there didn't you.
You did no research frank, if you had you would have known that rocklea was extensivly flooded in 2011 and it would have been the first question you'd have asked the agent. Rocklea is a dump, an industrial area and always will be because of it's flood potential. No investor worth his salt would even be looking there in the first place. You're third rate frank, stay in rocky, you'll only get burnt down in Brisbane.
Now stop trying to derail the thread, it's about GOLD! And were sick of hearing you spruke up property here. There are plenty of threads for that.
Shadow
9 Sep 2013, 07:18 PM
conork
9 Sep 2013, 06:47 PM
If I have a property worth 100k, its depreciating by 3-4% per annum
What are you doing with it to make it depreciate by so much?
Contaminating the land with asbestos?
You're such a mushroom shadow. This is what he is talking about, and next year it could be Sydney or it could be Perth.
Quote:
Canberra's capital limits 08 JUL 2013 Figures from an RP Data Property capital markets report issued earlier this year indicate that home value growth in Canberra over the past five years has been significantly lower than the gains recorded over the five years to December 2007.
This is very true, I guess the point I'm making is, property is largely speculative, getting a property that doesn't require negative gearing in a good location is very hard to come by.
Hmm. In my view there are PI strategies that run the gamut from purely speculative to being about as non-speculative as any investment can get.
Property can be bought and financed at any level of gearing from 0% to about 80%, so there is no requirement for negative gearing at any level of yield. If you mean it is pretty hard to find something residential that has no glaring faults that will cover interest and expenses in the first year at 80% (or even 60%) LVR, then I agree completely. In my experience, if the gross yield is above 7% there is a very good reason such as:
a) High costs which give you a "normal" nett yield before interest. b) It is tied up with management contract and is for serviced apartment type business. Income growth for this kind of use is at least a percentage point lower than long-term rentals, and income is far more vulnerable to the business cycle. The ones I have actually done the sums on would require a gross yield approaching 20% to be attractive to me. c) It is in a high-risk or low-growth area.
The market is pretty efficient.
Quote:
In my opinion, at this moment in time, speculating in precious metals is better value (and the better of 2 evils) in that;
If I want a property in a good location (for consistent rent, less risk of depreciation), I have to negative gear in the hope of appreciation or by gold in the hope of appreciation.
I always find this reasoning a little strange. The main reason I see to speculate on any hard asset (including - perhaps especially - PMs) is as a hedge against inflation. You hear all kinds of justifications including rants about the inherent worthlessness of fiat currency, etc etc, but most of the arguments boil down to this. One day your fiat currency will be worthless and my {gold/silver/farmland/oil futures} will still be exchangeable for what I need. Essentially you are taking a position that will do well if the currency drops in value. But taking on debt is by definition taking on a short position against the currency and land at least is a pretty hard asset so leveraging property is a 2-way hedge against inflation. Moreover, what both the holders of PMs and the holders of leveraged property fear most is a spike in interest rates - so it seems to me that leveraged PIs and holders of PMs benefit from and get slaughtered by much the same economic conditions.
And if you want to be unleveraged, I don't see a huge difference between someone who has $1M worth of physical gold and someone else who has a $700k house and $300k worth of 30-year bonds that pay the holding costs of the house with their income. Except that the guy with the house can sleep at night and has somewhere to sleep at night of course.
Gold also has the added property of being a tail hedge against certain kinds of chaos, with physical gold being the best tail hedge, running right down to leveraged ETNs that speculate on gold miners which would probably be the worst. I would never criticise someone for having a tail hedge once they reach a situation where they have gains to protect. It's like insurance. But tail hedges by their very nature cost you money in any non-disaster situation. You'll never get rich buying tail hedges because they are bloody expensive. (Actually, this is not quite true. Paulson and a few others got very rich buying tail hedges, but they spent dozens of man years searching for mispriced tail hedges and they had developed a risk model that almost nobody else had which turned out to be the correct one.)
goldbug
9 Sep 2013, 08:42 PM
You did no research frank, if you had you would have known that rocklea was extensivly flooded in 2011 and it would have been the first question you'd have asked the agent. Rocklea is a dump, an industrial area and always will be because of it's flood potential. No investor worth his salt would even be looking there in the first place. You're third rate frank, stay in rocky, you'll only get burnt down in Brisbane.
Actually lots of investors are buying up in areas of Brisbane that got flooded because anyone who was around in 1974 knows that the flood-risk discount decreases with every year you don't have a flood, and there is no flood-risk discount on rent.
It is an arbitrage opportunity that comes to Brisbane about once every 30-40 years.
You did no research frank, if you had you would have known that rocklea was extensivly flooded in 2011 and it would have been the first question you'd have asked the agent. Rocklea is a dump, an industrial area and always will be because of it's flood potential. No investor worth his salt would even be looking there in the first place. You're third rate frank, stay in rocky, you'll only get burnt down in Brisbane.
Now stop trying to derail the thread, it's about GOLD! And were sick of hearing you spruke up property here. There are plenty of threads for that. You're such a mushroom shadow. This is what he is talking about, and next year it could be Sydney or it could be Perth.
And if the asking price has declined by 5% we know that the sale price will probably be down 7% or more.
yes lets talk about gold since you are clueless about property.
why have you stopped talking about gold in aud??? oooh thats right it is down 6%.
I am the love child of Tony Abbott and Pauline Hanson
Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.
Forum Rules:
The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.
Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.
Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.
This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.
Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ
Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy
