From what i understand the NBN is currently throttled to cable type speed. Im guessing this is done via the ISP but i could be wrong.
Assuming Tony puts forward another alternative, will the existing NBN service be throttled indefinitely?
Download speed on the NBN right now is not much different from cable, and even though it is faster than the best ADSL, for most people it doesn't make a lot of difference. But the upload speed is quite a lot better and if you want to have a server or really take advantage of cloud services where you exchange data with the network rather than just passively stream media, it really does make quite a difference.
Fibre-based connections have a relatively easy upgrade from 100M download speed to 1000M download speed and in fact the fibre itself (as opposed to the equipment at each end) can handle thousands of times that speed.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
Download speed on the NBN right now is not much different from cable, and even though it is faster than the best ADSL, for most people it doesn't make a lot of difference. But the upload speed is quite a lot better and if you want to have a server or really take advantage of cloud services where you exchange data with the network rather than just passively stream media, it really does make quite a difference.
Fibre-based connections have a relatively easy upgrade from 100M download speed to 1000M download speed and in fact the fibre itself (as opposed to the equipment at each end) can handle thousands of times that speed.
thanks miw - the anticipated upgrade in NBN speeds won't be coming from a physical/hardware/fibre upgrade though will it? I would have (possibly incorrectly) thought it was throttled from the ISP to keep people at bay until it gets completed?
APF - a place where serious people don't take themselves too seriously. There's nothing else like it.
thanks miw - the anticipated upgrade in NBN speeds won't be coming from a physical/hardware/fibre upgrade though will it? I would have (possibly incorrectly) thought it was throttled from the ISP to keep people at bay until it gets completed?
The NBN is just the access layer into the network - the last mile so to speak. It transports your bits to and from your provider. It doesn't address bandwidth requirements within your provider's network, or transit between providers and it does not address international transport. All those other bits need to be upgraded as well, at the expense of the providers.
The good news is that there is plenty of unlit fibre available for this, including international fibre, but it will require investment to light it up.
The thing is, even once the investment is made, this capacity costs money. In particular international transit is relatively expensive, even if the cost of that drops by an order of magnitude every 5 years or so as optical technologies and routing and switching comes down in cost/capacity.
This means that your ISP has to have some way of making sure you don't pay $100/month and use $1000/month worth of transit. There are three ways to stop you from eating them out of house and home: a) Rely on a slow access link technology to keep you in check. Dialup did this, as do all-you-can-eat DSL plans that have a low-speed ADSL service. b) Bandwidth caps. DSL bandwidth caps have been going from 100M to 1G to 100G and upwards as the cost of international bandwidth has been dropping. c) Have a very fast access technology and maybe no cap, but shape/throttle your traffic at the access point so you can't go too birko. This seems to be the model being used by NBN providers so they can give you very fast last mile but not have to charge $1000/month.
At first installation of NBN, what you have is an access network which is way ahead of the capacity of the transit network. This is to be expected. Every time you upgrade one bit of a network to fix one bottleneck, the main bottleneck will move to somewhere else. The throttling by your ISP is to stop their transit network form being overwhelmed. It's like putting a set of lights on the on-ramp to a freeway while you are waiting for some more lanes to be added to the freeway.
In theory they could give you open slather access to nodes connected to the same access network and just throttle traffic that has to cross the transit network, but in practice ISPs don't do that very much because not differentiating allows them to effectively charge an international tariff for local traffic. But that is a very complex topic I'm not sure I want to get into here.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
im pretty disappointed it's looking like it wont be going ahead TBH. I know people (myself included) might say that adsl and cable are enough but i bet if we all woke up tomorrow morning with 1000Mbps we wouldn't be doing things the same way in 12 months time.
APF - a place where serious people don't take themselves too seriously. There's nothing else like it.
im pretty disappointed it's looking like it wont be going ahead TBH. I know people (myself included) might say that adsl and cable are enough but i bet if we all woke up tomorrow morning with 1000Mbps we wouldn't be doing things the same way in 12 months time.
My guess is that after lots of posturing and argy-bargy and some delays, the NBN more-or-less as currently proposed will come back by popular demand, but re-spun, re-named, and re-scheduled, and quite possibly with a higher user-pays component.
It's just not politically viable to have about 30% of dwellings with capacity to expand to 1000M within a decade and about 70% who will be stuck with 50M max for decades. Just think what an impact it will have on the Real Estate and rental market. Once someone has lived in a place with fibre access they will never want to go back.
Prospective tenants are already asking questions about network access when they look at apartments and I had one group come through who were wanting to move out of their previous accommodation purely because the DSL there was slow.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
My guess is that after lots of posturing and argy-bargy and some delays, the NBN more-or-less as currently proposed will come back by popular demand, but re-spun, re-named, and re-scheduled, and quite possibly with a higher user-pays component.
It's just not politically viable to have about 30% of dwellings with capacity to expand to 1000M within a decade and about 70% who will be stuck with 50M max for decades. Just think what an impact it will have on the Real Estate and rental market. Once someone has lived in a place with fibre access they will never want to go back.
Prospective tenants are already asking questions about network access when they look at apartments and I had one group come through who were wanting to move out of their previous accommodation purely because the DSL there was slow.
I believe the idea wasn't sold correctly from the start. I remember Rudd saying 'the NBN will change our lives like you couldn't believe' but they really should have gotten into it more. Up until recently i wasn't even aware how fast the potential speed could be and i bet a decent proportion of the population still don't know.
This will sound like complete rubbish but i wonder what might have happened if Labor went all in on a full blown NBN campaign directed towards education of what it could actually do - and even promoted the angle of multiple HD video streaming for entertainment purposes.
i hope you are right and i hope it gets through eventually
APF - a place where serious people don't take themselves too seriously. There's nothing else like it.
If this was a great idea dudes, how come Telstra hasn't picked it up and run with it - Backed by all the pension funds screaming that they want to chuck money at it too - Nah, sorry - Just sounds like one more under the river type Brisbane dark hole/tunnel to me?
The problem with the NBN is with the campaign, at the moment it's all about homes getting faster internet.
It really should be about things like:
* towns that don't need schools (because the school will come to the home) * or many consultancy style businesses, scan documents and talk back and forth, could easily be done * proper videophones * business that doesn't need people to move about giving presentations * faster, more efficient, more secure, decentralised data transfer (for digital document storage and money exchanges) * hospitals that can get consults from specialists across the world * storing backup's and data in australian based cloud farms * near instant, near universal broadcast potential * every home could have their own server, allowing people to store their music, movies, photos, documents etc at home, and view them from dumb terminals anywhere there was internet
* emergent technology will expand this list (and I've probably not named quite a few that already exist)
It could mean a large portion of the population doesn't actually need to leave their street or suburb to live, or to live well:
* their jobs could be anywhere in the world * their children's schooling comes through an interactive 2 way communication system * you could choose to live where ever you wanted and not be constrained by anything but health, security and food (though health and food could be automated too) * people could communicate in near real time, face to face. On what is basically their home phones.
We have fairly consistent weather and geography in Australia, our server farms could be the most secure in the world, everyone could pay us to host their data. Homes with extra unused bandwidth could run their own server farm and lease it out.
Smarthomes are still being worked on, but with smart meters and smart appliances starting to make headway, the home will need much better connectivity than it has now to run the internet for 2 maybe 3 computers.
The NBN Prices would come down, and we'd see more open Wifi spots so our phones and tablets won't need to use mobile towers (which are currently fairly congested) and whilst mobile data is encrypted, it is easier to collect from the air than light pulses in a cable that fails when the link is broken.
Current internet is great(ish) for current uses, but as more devices with a more varied use come onto the field our current internet will choke and die. With the NBN, every piece of electronics in the home in every home could be on the net, your fridge really could do the shopping and you wouldn't notice any slowdown at your computer.
Also, no more commuting, the only traffic on the roads will be holidayers, emergency services, public transport and deliveries. Could lead to a reduction in car use, people wouldn't need their own, they would use hire or share cars for travel.
The FTTN network is good, but it will need to be upgraded fairly soon too. With the FTTH Network only the hardware that connects the actual cables will need to be upgraded for a long time into the future.
Fiber will become faster and more secure as time goes on, I would have thought it better to get the cable refit right the first time than have fibre connected to Plain Old Telephone Service lines for a while cause we don't think it's needed now. But people seem to fail logic.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry
"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
If this was a great idea dudes, how come Telstra hasn't picked it and run with - Backed by all the pension funds screaming that they want to chuck money at it too - Nah, sorry - Just sounds like one more under the river type Brisbane dark hole/tunnel to me?
Telstra are fuckwits or at best a poorly structured company IMHO
I still remember when they paid good money for the 'trading post' publication years ago during a time it was clear the internet was taking over.
bring back Telecom goddamnit
Kulganis
1 Sep 2013, 06:20 PM
The problem with the NBN is with the campaign, at the moment it's all about homes getting faster internet.
It really should be about things like:
* towns that don't need schools (because the school will come to the home) * or many consultancy style businesses, scan documents and talk back and forth, could easily be done * proper videophones * business that doesn't need people to move about giving presentations * faster, more efficient, more secure, decentralised data transfer (for digital document storage and money exchanges) * hospitals that can get consults from specialists across the world * storing backup's and data in australian based cloud farms * near instant, near universal broadcast potential * every home could have their own server, allowing people to store their music, movies, photos, documents etc at home, and view them from dumb terminals anywhere there was internet
* emergent technology will expand this list (and I've probably not named quite a few that already exist)
It could mean a large portion of the population doesn't actually need to leave their street or suburb to live, or to live well:
* their jobs could be anywhere in the world * their children's schooling comes through an interactive 2 way communication system * you could choose to live where ever you wanted and not be constrained by anything but health, security and food (though health and food could be automated too) * people could communicate in near real time, face to face. On what is basically their home phones.
Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.
Forum Rules:
The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.
Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.
Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.
This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.
Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ
Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy
