LOL, now you are taking my position. I said you were paid by taxes. Go back carefully through my posts. I never stated you worked for the public service, only that everything you earn is public money. This may surprise you, but there are people who work for private corporations that sell products to end customers who are not government.
How do you know I've never heard about those parts of government? Oh right, I forgot, your clearance allowed you to look me up.
Actually I know a lot about the vetting process and how it has changed over time. But given your secret squirrel status, you should already know that.
It's not really very funny at all, but totally expected for a modern state apparatus post second world war.
We obviously have very different views on what is good for society. I'm generally of the opinion that capitalism, moderated or balanced by a regulatory or legislative structure that also requires a contribution from all toward a Common Wealth, has generally proved to be pretty good on the prosperity front for all those societies who have tried it. Secret, authoritarian, opaque, centrally planned and controlled societies have tended to fare not so well. In fact, they tend to concentrate wealth in the hands of a small group of people and in the long run, completely destroy any and all motivation to do any work at all in the populace, and collapse under their own weight. I think I have participated in the first type of society for at least part of my career. You I suspect have worked towards bringing about the second type.
I think your attention span needs some work. The company has already left Australia, and the jobs went with it. The work I did as part of a team of people only delayed it's loss. As for keeping Australia solvent, I don't know what you are talking about. Is that from an imaginary conversation in your head? (Is Australia still solvent?)
It's like we're talking two different languages here (perhaps you need to lighten up a bit... ) That said, let's not forget it was you that started flinging mud here, so don't cry when some gets thrown back your way.
Leaving aside the insults for a moment, I also take your position about what is good for society. I find it quite suprising that you think Australia is 'secret, authoritarian, opaque...' when the govt goes to great lengths to avoid this and laregly succeeds. Australia's wealth is not particularly concentrated when compared with many other countries. The fact that some people can start in the working class (or even in poverty) and attend state schools and then go on to either a trade or university degree and end up earning 6 figures before they are 30 is testament to that. There are plenty of tradies and business owners who do very well. Australia's minimum wage is very high compared with the rest of the world. Australia has incredible opportunities for those willing to put in the work. I don't believe that things should be simply handed to people on a plate like some posters here, though. It's not uncommon for people in this country to basically piss away their entire 20's and even early 30s - don't complain when you don't hace what others your age have who have worked while you played. Everyone, and every generation, has advantages here, but few really use them.
Would you say Australia really has the kind of problems you're describing? Do you genuinely believe that Australia is at a point where it could collapse under its own weight? Australia is not exactly a country with 'old money' like the US or Europe.
It's like we're talking two different languages here (perhaps you need to lighten up a bit... ) That said, let's not forget it was you that started flinging mud here, so don't cry when some gets thrown back your way.
Leaving aside the insults for a moment, I also take your position about what is good for society. I find it quite suprising that you think Australia is 'secret, authoritarian, opaque...' when the govt goes to great lengths to avoid this and laregly succeeds. Australia's wealth is not particularly concentrated when compared with many other countries. The fact that some people can start in the working class (or even in poverty) and attend state schools and then go on to either a trade or university degree and end up earning 6 figures before they are 30 is testament to that. There are plenty of tradies and business owners who do very well. Australia's minimum wage is very high compared with the rest of the world. Australia has incredible opportunities for those willing to put in the work. I don't believe that things should be simply handed to people on a plate like some posters here, though. It's not uncommon for people in this country to basically piss away their entire 20's and even early 30s - don't complain when you don't hace what others your age have who have worked while you played. Everyone, and every generation, has advantages here, but few really use them.
Would you say Australia really has the kind of problems you're describing? Do you genuinely believe that Australia is at a point where it could collapse under its own weight? Australia is not exactly a country with 'old money' like the US or Europe.
save your breath stinky, he will never admit when he is at fault.
I am the love child of Tony Abbott and Pauline Hanson
It's like we're talking two different languages here (perhaps you need to lighten up a bit... )
Yes, sorry, sometimes it gets a little serious.
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That said, let's not forget it was you that started flinging mud here, so don't cry when some gets thrown back your way.
I think you started by attacking my crazy neighbour moopsy, and I thought it looked like a good bit of mix-up so I jumped in with both feet.
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Leaving aside the insults for a moment, I also take your position about what is good for society. I find it quite suprising that you think Australia is 'secret, authoritarian, opaque...' when the govt goes to great lengths to avoid this and laregly succeeds.
15 years ago I would have agreed with you, but the federal government has become a lot more opaque and introduced a lot of very vague ambiguous laws since then. e.g. sedition laws and punitive laws for protecting your privacy (i.e. you can be jailed for 5 years just for not giving up your password). FOIA was actually pretty good when it was introduced, but has now become a bureaucratic farce.
From your earlier replies, I would guess you went through the security clearance process no more than 12 years ago. It's just a guess and if I am wrong then then I am wrong.
Mussolini is quoted as saying "Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power." In the modern lexicon, the word fascism has been completely ridiculed and satirized by scruffy Uni students calling anything they don't like 'fascist'*, but in Mussolini's definition of the word, it is important to understand how fascism can slowly creep up on a society such that they barely notice it until it is too late.
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Australia's wealth is not particularly concentrated when compared with many other countries.
Correct, however the current trend is toward greater disparity of wealth, and I see that trend continuing.
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The fact that some people can start in the working class (or even in poverty) and attend state schools and then go on to either a trade or university degree and end up earning 6 figures before they are 30 is testament to that. There are plenty of tradies and business owners who do very well.
Actually it is not indicative at all. Disparity of wealth is a byproduct of limits to trade. China has awful disparity of wealth, but there are a proportion of millionaires and billionaires who started as peasants with nothing. The key is transparency and freedom to trade, not who can become rich or powerful.
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Australia's minimum wage is very high compared with the rest of the world.
Which leads to a very high cost of living compared to the rest of the world.
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Australia has incredible opportunities for those willing to put in the work.
I know lots of very hard working business owners, they are barely getting by. The taxes they pay seems to create opportunities for those in the public service though, who seem to be paid more than the private sector to do I don't the fuck what. Opportunities abound if you know the right person in government though, I agree.
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I don't believe that things should be simply handed to people on a plate like some posters here, though. It's not uncommon for people in this country to basically piss away their entire 20's and even early 30s - don't complain when you don't hace what others your age have who have worked while you played. Everyone, and every generation, has advantages here, but few really use them.
This is a general truism for those working in the private sector. It seems odd to me that our very high income tax rates are being put to use to pay those in the public sector such high wages that they then purchase large numbers of assets, particularly housing, which they then rent back to those working in the private sector. Sounds like something I witnessed in my travels through Communist and Banana Republics when I was younger.
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Would you say Australia really has the kind of problems you're describing?
Am I a lot more careful about what I say and who I say it to than I was 10 years ago? Absolutely. Do I think that wealth is concentrating into a smaller and smaller group of people? Yes, absolutely. Do I believe that the public dialog is now completely driven by a small number of corporate interests? Yes indeed. Do I believe governments at a local and state level are more corrupt, and less accountable for their crimes than 15 years ago? Yes indeed. Do I believe that the DSD would be recording every communication made by every Australian if they hadn't run out of disk space and office works was still ordering in some more 1PTB drives? Not sure. Maybe you can enlighten.
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Do you genuinely believe that Australia is at a point where it could collapse under its own weight?
No, no, no. That process takes decades, and Australian governments are traditionally benign. I'm expecting the unpleasantness of the last 15 years to become a lot more unpleasant, but not as extreme as somewhere like the Soviet Union. The weather is too mild for that.
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Australia is not exactly a country with 'old money' like the US or Europe.
It doesn't really matter. These things can happen in a country of any age, with or without 'old money'. New money is just as capable of sponsoring and promoting these types of political philosophies.
I think you started by attacking my crazy neighbour moopsy, and I thought it looked like a good bit of mix-up so I jumped in with both feet.
15 years ago I would have agreed with you, but the federal government has become a lot more opaque and introduced a lot of very vague ambiguous laws since then. e.g. sedition laws and punitive laws for protecting your privacy (i.e. you can be jailed for 5 years just for not giving up your password). FOIA was actually pretty good when it was introduced, but has now become a bureaucratic farce.
From your earlier replies, I would guess you went through the security clearance process no more than 12 years ago. It's just a guess and if I am wrong then then I am wrong.
Mussolini is quoted as saying "Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power." In the modern lexicon, the word fascism has been completely ridiculed and satirized by scruffy Uni students calling anything they don't like 'fascist'*, but in Mussolini's definition of the word, it is important to understand how fascism can slowly creep up on a society such that they barely notice it until it is too late.
Correct, however the current trend is toward greater disparity of wealth, and I see that trend continuing.
Actually it is not indicative at all. Disparity of wealth is a byproduct of limits to trade. China has awful disparity of wealth, but there are a proportion of millionaires and billionaires who started as peasants with nothing. The key is transparency and freedom to trade, not who can become rich or powerful.
Which leads to a very high cost of living compared to the rest of the world. I know lots of very hard working business owners, they are barely getting by. The taxes they pay seems to create opportunities for those in the public service though, who seem to be paid more than the private sector to do I don't the fuck what. Opportunities abound if you know the right person in government though, I agree.
This is a general truism for those working in the private sector. It seems odd to me that our very high income tax rates are being put to use to pay those in the public sector such high wages that they then purchase large numbers of assets, particularly housing, which they then rent back to those working in the private sector. Sounds like something I witnessed in my travels through Communist and Banana Republics when I was younger.
Am I a lot more careful about what I say and who I say it to than I was 10 years ago? Absolutely. Do I think that wealth is concentrating into a smaller and smaller group of people? Yes, absolutely. Do I believe that the public dialog is now completely driven by a small number of corporate interests? Yes indeed. Do I believe governments at a local and state level are more corrupt, and less accountable for their crimes than 15 years ago? Yes indeed. Do I believe that the DSD would be recording every communication made by every Australian if they hadn't run out of disk space and office works was still ordering in some more 1PTB drives? Not sure. Maybe you can enlighten.
No, no, no. That process takes decades, and Australian governments are traditionally benign. I'm expecting the unpleasantness of the last 15 years to become a lot more unpleasant, but not as extreme as somewhere like the Soviet Union. The weather is too mild for that.
It doesn't really matter. These things can happen in a country of any age, with or without 'old money'. New money is just as capable of sponsoring and promoting these types of political philosophies.
I think I see where you are coming from.
I remember 15-20 years ago it seemed the business owners were all doing well, and tradies (and the rest of us) struggled to get by. From what I'm seeing the business owners are now struggling (because their costs have gone through the roof) and the tradies and labourers are getting a much better deal. Seeing this has, in my part of the world at least, led me to believe that the gap isn't necessarily so large. There are always the seriously wealthy, but they're pretty rare compared with the rest of us. That said, I'll be the first to recognise Canberra is not representative of wider Australia. I would consider our current economic climate to be at the crappy end of normal, and tough times are when fortunes get made.
As to the other stuff... I've done the clearance process several times, the first was actually 15 years ago. I agree security clearance process has certainly changed over that time. I agree that we do have some pretty vague laws around 'national security', but in my experience they're very rarely used. The govt has ways and means to get what it wants. Most data it wants is either in existing govt/corporate data bases, or (surprisingly commonly) plastered all over the internet on social media sites. I don't use social media beyond anonymous forums at all - just being cautious you see... If you are generally following the laws of the land and getting on with your life you have nothing to worry about.
As far as the public service goes, most people outside Canberra aren't aware that the current govt has been cutting back for several years now. 7000 public service positions have gone over the past 3-4 years, and more will go whoever wins govt. This is a good thing, though, because the cuts are almost always voluntary redundancy and attrition, and the public service needs a cut periodically to keep it a bit leaner. Having worked for several very large private sector companies, I wouldn't say most govt departments are actually much different. There are high and low performers and everything in between.
For me, I'm fortunate to have had opportunities to go from being a working class kid in a ratty suburb to getting a decent education and then getting into a very specialised career, with lots of demand in both private and public sectors. Given my background, I'm the sort of person that figures that opportunities should be leveraged, and that good times can turn bad without warning. I use property as a store of wealth, and so far it has fulfilled that role very well. I bought my first home 11 years ago last month.
I still see Australia as being a land of opportunity, but you can't just cruise along doing what everyone else does and expect a different result. The nasty truth that people don't want to talk about is that most people, including in Australia, have always felt like they were doing it tough in one way or another, and this is no different today. Again, my background may have clouded my view here. I still encourage everyone I can to do more for themself, if for no other reason than to give themself more options down the track.
I remember 15-20 years ago it seemed the business owners were all doing well, and tradies (and the rest of us) struggled to get by. From what I'm seeing the business owners are now struggling (because their costs have gone through the roof) and the tradies and labourers are getting a much better deal. Seeing this has, in my part of the world at least, led me to believe that the gap isn't necessarily so large. There are always the seriously wealthy, but they're pretty rare compared with the rest of us.
This is really the destruction of the middle class in action. The high wages that tradies and other blue collar workers are paid now are a temporary labour market distortion. High wages allows big companies to push SMEs out of the market, because they can leverage up labour so much more by spreading it over a larger revenue base (through economies of scale and monopoly control). This is the same thing that is happening all over the western world. The working class are being 'paid off' with high wages and welfare benefits, the cost of which is shouldered by the middle class SME business owners, driving them out of the market making it easier for large companies to consolidate market share and through monopoly control, pass the cost of high wages onto their "customers". This process can take decades, but once it is complete, those high wages the working class were enjoying suddenly disappear, and the social unrest that accompanies that event sees governments respond with increasingly authoritarian measures and laws 'to maintain law and order'. The US is almost at the end of this process, Europe is getting close also. We have a way to go yet, but nothing I see makes me believe we won't be heading down the same path.
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As to the other stuff... I've done the clearance process several times, the first was actually 15 years ago. I agree security clearance process has certainly changed over that time.
Fair enough. I know people who have gone through the process in the 60s, 80s, and 00s and I find the way it has changed to be very revealing of the political and psychological philosophy of those 'in charge'.
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I agree that we do have some pretty vague laws around 'national security', but in my experience they're very rarely used. The govt has ways and means to get what it wants. Most data it wants is either in existing govt/corporate data bases, or (surprisingly commonly) plastered all over the internet on social media sites. I don't use social media beyond anonymous forums at all - just being cautious you see... If you are generally following the laws of the land and getting on with your life you have nothing to worry about.
Yes, well, it's difficult to follow vague laws, because they are .... you know ... vague. Vague laws are a political apparatus of countries like Singapore and China. If the law is vague enough, it can be interpreted in any way you need to destroy your political enemies. Although the Lee regime likes to use tax audits/evasion charges as it's political weapon of choice. There is a strong correlation between open societies and the robustness and transparency of their legal systems.
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I still see Australia as being a land of opportunity, but you can't just cruise along doing what everyone else does and expect a different result. The nasty truth that people don't want to talk about is that most people, including in Australia, have always felt like they were doing it tough in one way or another, and this is no different today. Again, my background may have clouded my view here. I still encourage everyone I can to do more for themself, if for no other reason than to give themself more options down the track.
About 20 years ago I started working on options to emigrate. My family are here, but I didn't really see a future in Australia for any type of industry or work I was interested in. Now I could care less what I do to earn money, and all I see is a country full of greedy marks, waiting to be taken. It's kind of distasteful, but I have children to raise and keep safe, so in future I will just do what needs to be done, and become a pragmatic conformist for political camouflage.
On another note, this discussion has reminded me yet again that posting on internet forums is childish and dangerous. Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up this particular vice.
This is really the destruction of the middle class in action. The high wages that tradies and other blue collar workers are paid now are a temporary labour market distortion. High wages allows big companies to push SMEs out of the market, because they can leverage up labour so much more by spreading it over a larger revenue base (through economies of scale and monopoly control). This is the same thing that is happening all over the western world. The working class are being 'paid off' with high wages and welfare benefits, the cost of which is shouldered by the middle class SME business owners, driving them out of the market making it easier for large companies to consolidate market share and through monopoly control, pass the cost of high wages onto their "customers". This process can take decades, but once it is complete, those high wages the working class were enjoying suddenly disappear, and the social unrest that accompanies that event sees governments respond with increasingly authoritarian measures and laws 'to maintain law and order'. The US is almost at the end of this process, Europe is getting close also. We have a way to go yet, but nothing I see makes me believe we won't be heading down the same path.
Fair enough. I know people who have gone through the process in the 60s, 80s, and 00s and I find the way it has changed to be very revealing of the political and psychological philosophy of those 'in charge'.
Yes, well, it's difficult to follow vague laws, because they are .... you know ... vague. Vague laws are a political apparatus of countries like Singapore and China. If the law is vague enough, it can be interpreted in any way you need to destroy your political enemies. Although the Lee regime likes to use tax audits/evasion charges as it's political weapon of choice. There is a strong correlation between open societies and the robustness and transparency of their legal systems.
About 20 years ago I started working on options to emigrate. My family are here, but I didn't really see a future in Australia for any type of industry or work I was interested in. Now I could care less what I do to earn money, and all I see is a country full of greedy marks, waiting to be taken. It's kind of distasteful, but I have children to raise and keep safe, so in future I will just do what needs to be done, and become a pragmatic conformist for political camouflage.
On another note, this discussion has reminded me yet again that posting on internet forums is childish and dangerous. Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up this particular vice.
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) That said, let's not forget it was you that started flinging mud here, so don't cry when some gets thrown back your way.
If you are generally following the laws of the land and getting on with your life you have nothing to worry about.