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Anyone on minimum wage can afford to buy or rent a home in Australia
Topic Started: 29 Jan 2013, 03:53 PM (22,070 Views)
Veritas
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Shadow
29 Jan 2013, 05:27 PM
Veritas
29 Jan 2013, 05:21 PM
Shared accomadation works well for young people just starting out but what about single people who are much older or pensioners?
This isn't about what 'works well' for all demographics, it's about what people can afford to do.

My original proposition is that anyone on minimum wage can afford to buy or rent a home in Australia.

Do you disagree?
Of course I do because they cant. They can afford to rent part of a home. Its not theirs. They share it with someone else.

Which would be one thing if it was a spouse or family member but you are asking them to rent in a share house with strangers.

Would you be happy to have an elderly relative in a share house with strangers?
Would you consider that a safe and secure form of tenure?

You certainly would not.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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Shadow
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Veritas
29 Jan 2013, 05:31 PM
Of course I do because they cant. They can afford to rent part of a home. Its not theirs. They share it with someone else.

Which would be one thing if it was a spouse or family member but you are asking them to rent in a share house with strangers.
I'm not asking anyone to do anything - I am simply explaining the options available.

If someone is unwilling to share, then they can BUY their own home for around $200 per week.

Or they can put up with a little bit of 'housing stress' ('oh noes, they have to make sacrifices... the horror!) and rent a place of their own.
Edited by Shadow, 29 Jan 2013, 05:38 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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peter fraser
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Count du Monet
29 Jan 2013, 05:12 PM
Looks like it was renovated because it was underwater in the 2011 floods going by the map. The owner is looking for a sucker! :lol


Inala is well above the 2011 river flood levels, but according to the report the very lowest part of the block has had 40mm of water from a local creek on it. the highest section would be above water, and so should the house.

Brisbane has exceptional data on flooding as a result of the 2011 flood.

http://flood.brisbane.qld.gov.au/floodwise_property_report/

Edited by peter fraser, 29 Jan 2013, 05:40 PM.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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Veritas
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Shadow
29 Jan 2013, 05:35 PM
Veritas
29 Jan 2013, 05:31 PM
Of course I do because they cant. They can afford to rent part of a home. Its not theirs. They share it with someone else.

Which would be one thing if it was a spouse or family member but you are asking them to rent in a share house with strangers.
I'm not asking anyone to do anything - I am simply explaining the options available.

If someone is unwilling to share, then they can BUY their own home for around $200 per week.

Or they can put up with a little bit of 'housing stress' ('oh noes, they have to make sacrifices... the horror!) and rent a place of their own.
Sure, you are. You are saying sharing is good enough.

As for buying, you seem to be forgetting the bit about the 20% deposit.

Not many people on the minimum wage have that kind of dough.

I suspect the main reason why we can only get to a home ownership rate of 705 in this country is down purely to income distribution.

For some, renting will always be the only form of housing tenure they will ever be able to afford.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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Steve99
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Lets compare with Australia 15+ years ago. Back then a large percentages of the suburbs were afordable for those on minimum wage, now you are pushed to find much at all. Now, people on median wages are buying houses in the cheapest suburbs, and people on the Average wages (much higher than median) are buying in the median or less price suburbs. Then (15+years ago), there was enough land and houses selling for anyone that wanted one, unlike today where we have a whole raft of restricted practices and scams to keep prices stupidly high. Another point is, most 'cheapest' houses are a long way from where many people work, and I mean a long way beyond, costing a fortune in petrol and other car expenses aided and abeted of course by the lack of public transport.. Another point worth noting is lots of people are on less than the min wage and zero security due to todays casualisation of the work force. I know factory workers, forklift drivers, bus drivers etc who all bought in Melbs outer suburbs on one wage back in the 90's and no way by any measure would they be able to do that today and in fact they would need double their current wages to do so, anecdotal evidence but close to the facts than some well chosen expamples you nuts come up with to rationalise your speculative viewpoints on a regular basis. Why? to keep a lid on opinions to the contrary, ie prospective new buyers start reading these columns and we dont want them avoiding the 'program' do we? Throw a bit of doubt into their cautious behavior.
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Shadow
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Veritas
29 Jan 2013, 05:55 PM
Sure, you are. You are saying sharing is good enough.
It was good enough for me while I did it. If I was still on minimum wage then it would still be good enough for me. It's good enough for the thousands of people who currently share. Sounds like you don't think people should have to make any sacrifices at all?

Quote:
 
As for buying, you seem to be forgetting the bit about the 20% deposit.
Ah yes, the poor dears might have to sacrifice for a few years while they save for a deposit. 'That will never do - they deserve it all, and they deserve it right now godammit!'
Edited by Shadow, 29 Jan 2013, 06:08 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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miw
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Veritas
29 Jan 2013, 04:47 PM
Okay, lets be more specific.

The task is to do the following:

Find a place that a single person can rent at an affordable level in the Perth metro area for $202 per week or less.

Why $ 202? That is 1/3 of the minumum wage and a commonly accepted definition of affordability is if you are paying more than 30% of your income and you are in the bottom 40% of earners you are deemed to be in housing stress.

Now, I did a quick search and all i could find was student accomadation (shared) and straight up shared accomadation.

I have yet to find any self contained dwelling that can be rented for 202 per week in the Perth metro.
Why should a single person on minimum wage feel entitled to better than shared accommodation?

When I was a single person on a starting professional salary I shared. In fact, I only knew one person in my graduating class who took the decision to rent his own 1-bedroom place and we all thought he was being a bit extravagant.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Veritas
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Shadow
29 Jan 2013, 06:04 PM
It was good enough for me while I did it. If I was still on minimum wage then it would still be good enough for me. It's good enough for the thousands of people who currently share. Sounds like you don't think people should have to make any sacrifices at all?

Ah yes, the poor dears might have to sacrifice for a few years while they save for a deposit. 'That will never do - they deserve it all, and they deserve it right now godammit!'
Because once they make these sacrifices they will be rewarded wont they?

It doesnt work like that.

In a capitalist system, there will always be people in the lower income quintiles. Once there, climbing out is difficult. Some will but many wont for lots of reasons.

The only question that should concern us is what we consider to be a basic standard of housing for low income groups. And yes age and factors like that come into it.

Do you think as a society that it is okay for low income middle aged people to expect nothing more than share houses?

Or as I posted earlier in this thread: Do you think its okay for one guy to leave two investment properties vacant because he cant be bothered renting them out while single mothers with two kids sleep in their cars?

I dont.




miw
29 Jan 2013, 06:16 PM
Veritas
29 Jan 2013, 04:47 PM
Okay, lets be more specific. <br /><br />The task is to do the following:<br /><br />Find a place that a single person can rent at an affordable level in the Perth metro area for $202 per week or less. <br /><br />Why $ 202? That is 1/3 of the minumum wage and a commonly accepted definition of affordability is if you are paying more than 30% of your income and you are in the bottom 40% of earners you are deemed to be in housing stress. <br /><br />Now, I did a quick search and all i could find was student accomadation (shared) and straight up shared accomadation. <br /><br />I have yet to find any self contained dwelling that can be rented for 202 per week in the Perth metro.
Why should a single person on minimum wage feel entitled to better than shared accommodation?<br /><br />When I was a single person on a starting professional salary I shared. In fact, I only knew one person in my graduating class who took the decision to rent his own 1-bedroom place and we all thought he was being a bit extravagant.<br />
You assume that all people on the minimum wage ( or low waged) are young graduates. They arent.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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miw
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Veritas
29 Jan 2013, 05:21 PM
Well, when did you stop living in shared accomadation? And why?

Shared accomadation works well for young people just starting out but what about single people who are much older or pensioners?

Its not that crash hot then is it?
I stopped living in shared accommodation when I had saved up enough to buy my own place.

I guess if I had spent all my money and never saved while I was young I'd be looking down the barrel of shared accommodation as a pensioner. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who reap what they sow.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Veritas
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miw
29 Jan 2013, 06:21 PM
Veritas
29 Jan 2013, 05:21 PM
Well, when did you stop living in shared accomadation? And why?

Shared accomadation works well for young people just starting out but what about single people who are much older or pensioners?

Its not that crash hot then is it?
I stopped living in shared accommodation when I had saved up enough to buy my own place.

I guess if I had spent all my money and never saved while I was young I'd be looking down the barrel of shared accommodation as a pensioner. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who reap what they sow.

We have a certain economic system. It produces income inequality.

The guy who cleans your office after you leave needs somewhere to live too.

Its how you respond to that trusim is what is at issue here.

And you do know that you are making the assumption that everyone can "prepare for their retirement". How do you think the 47 million Americans who are on food stamps are doing in terms of preparing for their retirement.

No offence, but you need to stop looking at this problem from the blinkered perspective of a member of the petit burgeoise.
Edited by Veritas, 29 Jan 2013, 06:26 PM.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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