That's the best you can come up with in 17 minutes?
expertly argued - you're unstoppable.
Now run along and count your coins Nowra boy.
"It were not best that we should all think alike; it is difference of opinion that makes horse races." - Mark Twain on why he avoids discussing house prices over at MacroBusiness. "Buy land, they're not making any more of it." - Georgist Land Tax proponent Mark Twain laughing in his grave at humourless idiots like skamy that continually use this quip to justify housing bubbles.
You must be joking, right? A 3bedroom house on its own allotment recently sold for 250k in glenroy. 13kms from melbourne CBD.
What part of melbourne have you been looking at exactly
(etc.)
Ballarat is 100km out of Melbourne, I get it, it's a house, and if you want to move and get a job out that way, that's fine. I get it. There are options if your only priority is to own a house/property. Funnily enough over the past 8-12 months i've been doing a lot of eRealestate browsing. And I have not found anything even close to 200k, let alone what I assume a 300k home loan equates to (about what? 150k in actual home cost?). Especially anywhere near Melbourne city as it were.
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To Glorrible..
I haven't been brought up in poverty, but my parents have suffered in what poverty means.
I've started at an early age to own & invest in property . No, you certainly don't need to be a robot..... To have quality in life ..
It does not matter what you have to your name but no one gets an easy way / ride in life. Be true to yourself. See a financial professional ?..you just may be pleasantly surprised.
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70% of the population in the world would love to swap places with you and be doing exactly that in Melbourne. I've lived on minimum wage before and no it wasn't luxurious. But what did you expect it to be?
Oh I get it, "first world problems" is a common phrase I like to throw at people who whinge over rubbish. But there is a certain merit to them. First world problems often only exist in the first world. The 3rd world doesn't have all the regulatory red tape, little legislation and such which require you to pay this tax and that fee and those bills in order to keep you working for it's system. Do you know how many of said 70 (or 90) % completely try to rort the system due to the very fact they think that system is ridiculous? i'm not saying that it's ridiculous, but they themselves do not want to be in the situation most of us are in, they want it, and MORE. No one is advocating luxury (at least, no one who is sane) while living on minimum wage.
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It wouldn't be a wonderful house, but then we're talking about minimum wage earners here. The worst houses will go to the people with the lowest incomes. If you think minimum wage earners deserve to own better than the worst houses, then who do you think would own the worst houses... lepers? You probably wouldn't be a minimum wage earner then, at least not for long.
I just want to raise on this point, minimum wage is a majority of earners. The majority of minimum wage jobs are in the city or in dense population centres. This means you either live in or commute to said population centres for work. I think it would suffice to say, if you are permanent minimum wage earner, you are more likely to work in said area and thus buying a house is less of an option. On top of that rental prices within range are less likely to afford you any savings in working towards a deposit. And as others have said, shack up with someone, which I doubt someone wants to do later into their lives.
I get it though, if you live by yourself, work minimum wage and have no plans for family, kids, etc.. and simply want a house, even if it means moving to a place where you can't even get a job to pay off that loan, you can own a house.
I just want to raise on this point, minimum wage is a majority of earners.
I find this very hard to believe. Do you have any evidence of this?
glorrible
21 Jul 2013, 03:55 AM
Oh I get it, "first world problems" is a common phrase I like to throw at people who whinge over rubbish. But there is a certain merit to them. First world problems often only exist in the first world. The 3rd world doesn't have all the regulatory red tape, little legislation and such which require you to pay this tax and that fee and those bills in order to keep you working for it's system. Do you know how many of said 70 (or 90) % completely try to rort the system due to the very fact they think that system is ridiculous? i'm not saying that it's ridiculous, but they themselves do not want to be in the situation most of us are in, they want it, and MORE.
There is nothing wrong with wanting more. I wouldn't mind a bit more for my family either. But I don't go complaining about it on a forum.
I find this very hard to believe. Do you have any evidence of this? There is nothing wrong with wanting more. I wouldn't mind a bit more for my family either. But I don't go complaining about it on a forum.
I will admit, I didn't sight any review, but I can only say that; for every manager in a retail business there are 3-20 retail jockies below them. And retail/service is the majority of employment. Whether it's supermarkets, coffee shops, clothing, restaurant waiting staff, cooks/food preps, etc. A quick google search for Job Growth in Australia does seem to suggest this is the case. That said i'm no expert.
I see you also like the completely miss or misunderstand the intended point. By "more", I don't meant wanting more and working legitimately it gain it, i'm talking about rorting the system to achieve more than others who do not, which also results in the system placing harder boundaries and restrictions on those who do not. As they say, a criminal will won't be deterred by a padlock, but a good man will. All I meant to really put across with that is, yes we are have remarkably better than many many other countries, even other 1st world countries, but it is not a linear scale from 3rd world to 1st world.
I didn't come here complaining about inequality, I came here to point out that the fairytale world where anyone can gain a property "if they just sacrifice a bit" can be and mostly is a load of trollop. Yes if you've gone through your younger life with no problems, no debt, no health issues, no problems in education, no major changes and last but not least, responsibilities (family as an example), outside of personal gain and progression; Then yes, you can own a property a few short years. Hell if my plans to join the military went through when I wanted back when I was 19, I would be trade qualified and own a damn fine home right now. But that's not the case. Life got in the way and that's how it is, i'm not bitter about it, but I will not sit by and watch a bunch of naive black'n'white thinking idiots who like to spew how everyone who doesn't own a home and "just sacrifice" is stupid and lazy.
You're the insecure douche getting on here trying to argue that people are lying to themselves if they say they don't need to compete.
I don't feel the need to compete as evidenced by my admission of having purchased a house in the worst part of Nowra.
You do feel the need to compete as evidenced by you being caught in the act lying about your property acquisitions to an anonymous property forum that couldn't give a rats ass about your claims anyway , Mikey Boy.
I came here to point out that the fairytale world where anyone can gain a property "if they just sacrifice a bit" can be and mostly is a load of trollop.
Not anyone, but any employed person earning minimum wage can.
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Yes if you've gone through your younger life with no problems, no debt, no health issues, no problems in education, no major changes and last but not least, responsibilities (family as an example), outside of personal gain and progression
Why would education problems or health problems prevent a minimum wage earner from owing a home?
The other things you mention are personal choices - a person can choose not to have other debt, or not to start a family until after they buy a home.
Not anyone, but any employed person earning minimum wage can.
Why would education problems or health problems prevent a minimum wage earner from owing a home?
The other things you mention are personal choices - a person can choose not to have other debt, or not to start a family until after they buy a home.
I'd just like to point out not all minimum wage earners are working full time hours, minimum wage is a wage, not a salary. yes I understand you're talking about people with set 38 hour weeks, but that is rarely the case for minimum wage earners who aren't actively working towards a career goal and thus won't be in the minimum wage bracket for long. Many employers leave full time contracts and permanent hours open to those they think are looking to advance their career, and give those who are stuck as minimum wage on part time contracts. Also many permanent minimum wage workers jump from job to job, whether because they get sick of the same job, they are let go due to working for a smaller business without union protection, or whatever. And due to this they often don't have a steady influx of minimum wage income.
I reference educations because it's relevant. If someone was trying for education, paid for student loans, etc.. but ultimately failed/gave up, they are going to have debt, which puts them behind. (if you think that "choice" fits into the category as starting a family or whatnot, I don't know if it's worth discussing this with you).
And on THAT note, I don't think you realise the scope of what I was talking about. Let me give you an example;
Single father heroine addict brings up son. Son gets to the age of 18, decides to work for a year before moving onto higher education. The father gets leukaemia, has no money, no savings, survives on disability pension, already has diabetes, foot ulcers, and a multitude of other health problems, gets to a point of needing full time care, doesn't respond well to outsiders. Son decides to take on the responsibility (as no other family members are able to do so). Much of time is spend as a full time carer, carer benefits from centrelink are only just enough for minimums, any extras such as taking a taxi to the hospital due to the mentioned health problems are out of own pocket. 5 years of that turns into debt, on credit and such.
I won't go into any more detail. But, tell me, what "choice" was there in that debt? in that responsibility to family? was it something a person should just go "nah, to hell with you dad, I want to get me a house, you can die in a hole mate, thanks for bringing me up the best you knew how for 18 years though".
It's a specific example, but one more akin to what I speak of. life isn't linear, shit happens and people don't always have immediate options.
was it something a person should just go "nah, to hell with you dad, I want to get me a house
My post and thread title don't say what people 'should' do. I have made no judgement about the morality of people who choose to buy a home over other available choices. I simply pointed out that anyone who earns a minimum wage can afford to buy a home. If they choose do do something else with their money (as you say, there may be other options that are more important to them) then that's fine. But that doesn't change the fact that they can afford to buy a home, if they choose to make buying a home their priority.
Come on, to be fair someone could create an example of not being able to afford a house on the minimum wage regardless of how cheap housing costs might be..
Also if someone falls ill in Australia they will generally be better taken care of than most other countries with cheaper housing. In your first example you mentioned property within 100km of melbourne CBD, I suggested ballarat (100km from melbourne). Your response was basically 'who would want to live there'. I also suggested other areas less than 50kms from the cbd (remember you mentioned 100kms) and now we are arm waving, talking about part time work, drug addicts and the like. Im sorry but I call bullshit.
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