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Anyone on minimum wage can afford to buy or rent a home in Australia
Topic Started: 29 Jan 2013, 03:53 PM (22,056 Views)
Shadow
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Miles McCarthy
30 Jan 2013, 07:40 PM
So, someone on minimum wage with a stay at home wife and two dependent school children CAN afford to buy a home in Australia?
They certainly can.

But if the wife chooses to not work then it will take a lot longer than it would if they prioritised buying a home above her desire to watch daytime TV.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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herbie
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Kids would seem to change the sums a bit. Family Tax A and B plus Supplements on each of them in secondary school can entitle their olds to something like $8,815 pa tax free pa apparently? :

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/family-tax-benefit-part-a-part-b

What does it cost to keep a kid these days? No idea. Can one also get rent assistance? No idea. Are there other payments available? Possibly???
Shadow
30 Jan 2013, 07:33 PM
If you can think of an interesting topic to discuss yourself, you can start a thread about that too.
Do believe I'll take you up on that suggestion Shadow. As there was an associated thought that occurred to me as resut of your thread that I'd genuinely like to hear comments on.
Edited by herbie, 30 Jan 2013, 08:53 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Miles McCarthy
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Shadow
30 Jan 2013, 08:12 PM
They certainly can.

What do you think the food,utility bill and school expenses would be for that family? Or, how much do you think they could save each week?
Quote:
 
But if the wife chooses to not work then it will take a lot longer than it would if they prioritised buying a home above her desire to watch daytime TV.

How much longer?


The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken

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Shadow
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Miles McCarthy
30 Jan 2013, 09:02 PM
What do you think the food,utility bill and school expenses would be for that family? Or, how much do you think they could save each week?
As Herbie mentioned, for a low income family like that, the kids expenses will be well looked after by the government.

And the kids can always work down the mines after school, then pick up some coal off the street on the way home.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Miles McCarthy
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herbie
30 Jan 2013, 08:48 PM
Kids would seem to change the sums a bit. Family Tax A and B plus Supplements on each of them in secondary school can entitle their olds to something like $8,815 pa tax free pa apparently? :

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/family-tax-benefit-part-a-part-b

What does it cost to keep a kid these days? No idea. Can one also get rent assistance? No idea. Are there other payments available? Possibly???
Assuming you also don't pay any tax with dependents, that is $40,327pa or $775 per week. Assuming that they rent 2 rooms rather than 1, $280 per week, $200 food, $60 utilities, $15 week school excursions/books/etc (although, they should probably prioritise keeping people in the banking industry employed over their kids education so remove the $15 per week), kids walk to school with their mum, no phone, no internet, cheap TV is $435 per week in savings. Actually works out better than if the wife were employed due to no after school care expenses.

2 bedroom unit would start around 360K, 80%LVR + 7K FHOG = 72K deposit, 281K loan or $363 per week in repayments or 46% of take home pay. Add in the other expenses of $260, and you get $623 total outgoings on $775 per week incoming.

Looks like the family benefit gets paid fortnightly if you so choose, so only 3.5 years of no phone, no internet, no school excursions, no eating out, no alcohol, no movies, no Christmas, no Easter,no new clothes or shoes, no school uniforms (probably get donations from the lost'n'found) and you are in your 2 bedroom flat with two kids bouncing off the walls. Awesome.

Shadow
30 Jan 2013, 09:14 PM
As Herbie mentioned, for a low income family like that, the kids expenses will be well looked after by the government.
Your laziness is only exceeded by your disingenuousness.
Quote:
 
And the kids can always work down the mines after school, then pick up some coal off the street on the way home.

If only we had a zero Brit immigration policy, then they might not have to.
Edited by Miles McCarthy, 30 Jan 2013, 09:28 PM.


The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken

.
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Shadow
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Miles McCarthy
30 Jan 2013, 09:26 PM
2 bedroom unit would start around 360K, 80%LVR + 7K FHOG = 72K deposit, 281K loan or $363 per week in repayments
2 bedroom unit in the centre of Perth for $250K... http://www.realestate.com.au/property-apartment-wa-perth-111931175

20% deposit of $50K, less FHOG of 7K, means savings of $43K would be needed.

Or 10% deposit of $25K, less FHOG of 7K, means savings of $18K would be needed.

A 3-year fixed rate of 5.39% is available from Westpac, and even lower fixed and variable rates are available other lenders.

Interest only repayments on a $200K loan at 5.39% would be $207 per week, or P&I repayments would be $280 per week (25 year term).
Edited by Shadow, 30 Jan 2013, 09:44 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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miw
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Miles McCarthy
30 Jan 2013, 07:57 PM
Wrong. Let me quote Shadow for your reference and I will highlight the pertinent claim.




Someone with a stay-at-home wife and two school age dependents earning minimum wage meets the definition of 'anyone'. And so the question stands.
About 40 pages ago (or perhaps in the thread this forked off) the assertion was that a single person on minimum wage could afford to buy a house.

A person on minimum wage with a stay at home wife and 2 dependents would struggle to save for an purchase a house in any of the capital cities.

But then through most of history, people would have said a person on minimum wage would have no business having a stay-at-home wife and 2 dependent children.

Of course these days there are many stay-at-home bong smokers with stay-at-home partners and multiple dependent children. But any policy that aims to make it possible for these people to save for and buy a house is a huge fail. I would hope they couldn't.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
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herbie
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miw
30 Jan 2013, 10:17 PM
Of course these days there are many stay-at-home bong smokers with stay-at-home partners and multiple dependent children. But any policy that aims to make it possible for these people to save for and buy a house is a huge fail. I would hope they couldn't.
Correct me if I'm wrong MIW, but my recollection is that you said recently you got pinged from your job and are going to see how you go not working for the next two years?

Anyway, specific reason I ask is that I tried staying unemployed for about 4 years. (As a totally self funded retiree - No gov assistance of any sort apart from being entitled to Medicare Benefits as everyone is - I think? Shute, I'm actually the ONLY Oz resident who didn't get some version of Krudd's $900 handout that I know of ... Specifically because I'd minimised my tax SO effectively that particular year I didn't qualify - One HAD to be either a tax payer or a charity case to qualify; And I was neither.)

Worked OK. But not great. Tended to make me a bit bitter and twisted towards all the bludgers I think? (And I got to have a good look at the bludgers 'cause I was [and am] living amongst them - In what the PC types call a lower socio-economic area. Though as a working class boy I'm pretty familiar with a bunch of lower socio-economic stuff regardless.)

But anyway, it's nice to be back at work bringing in good loot now. Though will be even more nice to stop work again maybe? And to continue to live amongst the bludgers 'cause basically I don't especially blame them for just opting to get away with whatever our pathetic gov lets them get away with even though I'm REALLY convinced it's NOT good for them.
Edited by herbie, 30 Jan 2013, 10:58 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Simon
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Miles McCarthy
30 Jan 2013, 09:26 PM
2 bedroom unit would start around 360K
360K gets you a 3BR or 4BR house in many parts of the country

http://www.realestate.com.au/buy/property-house-with-3-bedrooms-between-300000-400000-in-nsw/list-1?maxBeds=any&activeSort=price-asc&source=refinements
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herbie
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Simon
30 Jan 2013, 11:12 PM
Miles McCarthy
30 Jan 2013, 09:26 PM
2 bedroom unit would start around 360K
360K gets you a 3BR or 4BR house in many parts of the country

http://www.realestate.com.au/buy/property-house-with-3-bedrooms-between-300000-400000-in-nsw/list-1?maxBeds=any&activeSort=price-asc&source=refinements
$205K - Not a lot of Aussies' dream home/house. But one could do worse perhaps? (And No it's NOT mine that I'm trying to flog off ... :re: ) :

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-caboolture-112681395
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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