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Anyone on minimum wage can afford to buy or rent a home in Australia
Topic Started: 29 Jan 2013, 03:53 PM (22,059 Views)
Poontang
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Veritas
30 Jan 2013, 04:58 PM
And the argument was won. Convincinly.

What you and Shadow are offering up are fanciful notions of teetotalling, nonsmoking, celibate loners who eat cornflakes for breakfast lunch and dinner saving enough for a deposit and to buy a house.

As I explained earlier you are doing this, because you and Shadow are always on message.

The message is: Housing is not expensive in Australia.

You just find different ways of hammering home that message in the context of different discussions. Day in day out like some kind of internet bot.

Anyway, Ive said my piece on this. I'll leave it to you guys.
Multiple threads with the same message.. almost paid shill like :)
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
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Strindberg
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Poontang
30 Jan 2013, 05:09 PM
Multiple threads with the same message.. almost paid shill like :)
If you have an accusation to make then make it like a man instead of hiding behind giggling girlie talk.
Housing costs to Income broadly unchanged since 1994 - re-ratified here
The People of Australia have the highest median wealth in the World
2002-2012 10 year house price growth the SLOWEST since 1952-1962
"There are two kinds of people in this world: ones that fiddle around wondering whether a thing's right or wrong and guys like us." (Hugo to Gagin in Ride the Pink Horse)
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Andrew Judd
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Poontang
30 Jan 2013, 05:09 PM
Multiple threads with the same message.. almost paid shill like :)
The bears here need a different direction to their argument.

Shadow is correct

The issue really is about what is typically affordable and i do not think you can argue that a minimum wage typically enables a person to buy their own home.

However since home ownership is a form of voluntary forced savings plan if a person wants to go that route it appears they can do it in Australia on minimum wage.

A more relevant question appears to be whether the high wages of Australia are sustainable when it appears from many different directions the economy is struggling.
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Poontang
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Strindberg
30 Jan 2013, 05:22 PM
If you have an accusation to make then make it like a man instead of hiding behind giggling girlie talk.
There is no accusation, there is an opinion that his manner is shill like.

Especially the propensity to take "comment" from a thread and create a new thread.

POSSIBLY to remove clutter of the other thread into one he can control with his tendency to use his grasp of the English language to "lead the witness" or commentator to agree to his thought process.

Is he a shill? Don't know and don't care. I come here to give my opinions and read the opinions of others on economic matters.


One of my opinions is that he does act in a shill like manner. I am sure there are others that agree.

if he is or isn't is not the point I raised, just his mannerisms are shill (paid) like.

I also think he is dogmatic.... again opinion...
Edited by Poontang, 30 Jan 2013, 05:50 PM.
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
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nipa hut
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Shadow
30 Jan 2013, 04:48 PM
That fact that you only answered in relation to the wife tells me he is a smoker who enjoys a few drinks with the lads after work and at the weekend. Big waste of money right there - get him to add up the cost sometime, or do it yourself. You will be surprised at the proportion of a minimum wage that can be rapidly consumed by cigarettes and alcohol.

Edit... I see you've deleted your post. Gotcha. :lol
No, the truth is a bit more embarrassing than that, but to me, not to them (let alone to their budget).

The two times I've shouted him (literally) 2-3 beers at my home, most recently on Australia Day weekend, he became very belligerent. On the more recent occasion he started insulting the way we allow our older child to behave (that child is a model student in Australian terms, but not from his perspective).

Now, apparently, they've stopped coming over, at the behest of his wife, because--according to the wife-to-wife grapevine--I'm a bad influence on him for plying him with alcohol, which he doesn't drink at home. The whole thing has spilt over to my church congregation--a beehive has nothing on them--and based on their feedback, I'm now pretty sure he actually is a non-drinker. [embarrassed]

He does smoke the occasional roll-your-own cigarette, however. He's not allowed to smoke at home (the wife again) or at work, but I think he goes through a bag of tobacco every 3 weeks or so. So you've got him there, Shadow.
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Strindberg
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Poontang
30 Jan 2013, 05:40 PM
There is no accusation, there is an opinion that his manner is shill like.

Especially the propensity to take "comment" from a thread and create a new thread.

POSSIBLY to remove clutter of the other thread into one he can control with his tendency to use his grasp of the English language to "lead the witness" or commentator to agree to his thought process.

Is he a shill? Don't know and don't care. I come here to give my opinions and read the opinions of others on economic matters.


One of my opinions is that he does act in a shill like manner. I am sure there are others that agree.

if he is or isn't is not the point I raised, just his mannerisms are shill like.
The point you raised was "paid" and you have now pretended you never wrote it by focusing solely on the "shill" bit. It was obvious to you and everyone else I was referring to the "paid" accusation. You're lying by inferring otherwise.

You're cuckoo if you imagine people get paid to write this stuff on here.
Housing costs to Income broadly unchanged since 1994 - re-ratified here
The People of Australia have the highest median wealth in the World
2002-2012 10 year house price growth the SLOWEST since 1952-1962
"There are two kinds of people in this world: ones that fiddle around wondering whether a thing's right or wrong and guys like us." (Hugo to Gagin in Ride the Pink Horse)
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Poontang
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Strindberg
30 Jan 2013, 05:48 PM
The point you raised was "paid" and you have now pretended you never wrote it by focusing solely on the "shill" bit. It was obvious to you and everyone else I was referring to the "paid" accusation. You're lying by inferring otherwise.

You're cuckoo if you imagine people get paid to write this stuff on here.
Just for you I put paid in there, though not really necessary as in forum context a shill would generally imply being paid..
Strindberg
30 Jan 2013, 05:48 PM


You're cuckoo if you imagine people get paid to write this stuff on here.
Insultive, dismissive reply... maybe you are one as well?
Edited by Poontang, 30 Jan 2013, 05:54 PM.
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
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nipa hut
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Strindberg
30 Jan 2013, 01:59 PM
As wiki would say:

[Straw man argument]
Once again, how, Strindberg, does my question to the board about their life experience, differ from the premise that Shadow set out for affordability of purchased housing on minimum wage?

Remember, all of the conditions need to have applied over the multi-year period:
- minimum-wage income
- living on their own [without parental or other subsidy of any kind]
- actually saved a full 1/3 of their income towards a down payment on a house

You have pretended that the above is a "straw man", in relation to Shadow's premise. In what respect, exactly?

I do note that the two individuals who have responded thus far about their uni-years' experience actually had lower-than-min-wage incomes during that period, and (presumably) higher ones afterwards. I.e. their income and real-estate ownership-affordability experiences were completely unrepresentative of Shadow's model of min-wage housing affordability, both during and after uni.
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Shadow
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Evil Mouzealot Specufestor

nipa hut
30 Jan 2013, 06:01 PM
Remember, all of the conditions need to have applied over the multi-year period:
- minimum-wage income
- living on their own [without parental or other subsidy of any kind]
- actually saved a full 1/3 of their income towards a down payment on a house
Your irrelevant strawman has already been addressed. Repeating it doesn't make it any more relevant.

Nobody is claiming that it is common for people on minimum income to buy a home. Most lack the financial discipline.

However, anyone on minimum wage CAN afford to buy or rent a home in Australia.
Poontang
30 Jan 2013, 05:09 PM
Multiple threads with the same message.. almost paid shill like :)
I could say the same about many of the bears with their multiple threads about the impending crash, but I won't because I'm not a paranoid fool.
Edited by Shadow, 30 Jan 2013, 06:13 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Poontang
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Shadow
30 Jan 2013, 06:10 PM

I could say the same about many of the bears with their multiple threads about the impending crash, but I won't because I'm not a paranoid fool.
I dismiss them as opinions of those of the "self interest" A shill (paid) works under the "vested interest"
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
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