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Anyone on minimum wage can afford to buy or rent a home in Australia
Topic Started: 29 Jan 2013, 03:53 PM (22,060 Views)
Shadow
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Veritas
30 Jan 2013, 04:23 PM
If you are genuinely curious about where Australia's poor are living and how they are faring in general, maybe you could volunteer at your local homeless service provider or similar.

You will undoubtedly find the answers you seek there.
If you know the answer why don't you just tell us?

Where are all these minimum-wage-earners living now, if they can't afford to live in a home?
Edited by Shadow, 30 Jan 2013, 04:35 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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nipa hut
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Trojan
30 Jan 2013, 04:26 PM
If your friend lives the same lifestyle and gets paid minimum wage, he can save 1/3 of it.
I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that he doesn't live the same lifestyle--I did note that he's got a wife and children to care for. But I rather suspect that in material terms, it's at least as spartan an existence overall, as yours ever was.

And I'd also rather suspect, that if your uni budget had been more generous (from whatever source: parents, summer job, scholarship?), that you would not have entirely constrained your expenditure to the Austudy level, and religiously saved the rest for housing...

Obviously that's a counterfactual example, so only you will know the truth of my conjecture...

:lol :lol :lol
Edited by nipa hut, 30 Jan 2013, 04:44 PM.
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Shadow
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nipa hut
30 Jan 2013, 04:35 PM
I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that he doesn't live the same lifestyle--I did note that he's got a wife and children to care for. But I rather suspect that in material terms, it's at least as spartan an existence overall, as yours ever was.
Does he (or his wife) smoke at all, or go out drinking much?
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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miw
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nipa hut
30 Jan 2013, 04:35 PM
I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that he doesn't live the same lifestyle--I did note that he's got a wife and children to care for. But I rather suspect that in material terms, it's at least as spartan an existence overall, as yours ever was.
I don't doubt it. People who come from places where it is actually hard really know how to drive their dollar further. I remember visiting the houses of Chinese students in the early 1990s and seeing the frugality they practiced. For example, if they boiled the kettle they would pour any left-over water into a thermos in order not to waste the heat they had just paid for. Those guys left me for dead in terms of living on the smell of an oily rag and I respected them for it.

I'd say they were living on about 1/3 of the minimum wage.
Edited by miw, 30 Jan 2013, 04:55 PM.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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nipa hut
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..
Edited by nipa hut, 30 Jan 2013, 04:46 PM.
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Strindberg
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Veritas
30 Jan 2013, 04:14 PM
This argument has now denigrated into a bun fight about semantics.
No it hasn't. The issue clear. I don't believe there can be any dispute about the the meaning of the word "can".

Your own and Nipa's attempts to bring in other issues are simply tactics to avoid facing the reality that Shadow's claim has been verified by the personal experiences of this forum's posters. These diversionary tactics about outright ownership, what people did in the past, graduates versus others, what happened in the US, community group think, are nothing to do with "semantics".

Invoking semantics is just yet another attempt at diversion using a straw man logical fallacy.
Housing costs to Income broadly unchanged since 1994 - re-ratified here
The People of Australia have the highest median wealth in the World
2002-2012 10 year house price growth the SLOWEST since 1952-1962
"There are two kinds of people in this world: ones that fiddle around wondering whether a thing's right or wrong and guys like us." (Hugo to Gagin in Ride the Pink Horse)
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Shadow
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nipa hut
30 Jan 2013, 04:45 PM
Quote:
 
Does he (or his wife) smoke at all, or go out drinking much?
She's a teetotaller who doesn't smoke.
That fact that you only answered in relation to the wife tells me he is a smoker who enjoys a few drinks with the lads after work and at the weekend. Big waste of money right there - get him to add up the cost sometime, or do it yourself. You will be surprised at the proportion of a minimum wage that can be rapidly consumed by cigarettes and alcohol.

Edit... I see you've deleted your post. Gotcha. :lol
Edited by Shadow, 30 Jan 2013, 04:49 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Poontang
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miw
30 Jan 2013, 02:50 PM
So what? The reason anyone with a pulse could buy a house in the US (as long as they had a certain level of credit score, BTW) was that some lenders were quite happy to write loans when they knew absolutely that the borrower could not afford even the first payment.

Now, if you can show an example of that happening in Australia, I will consider the comment relevant. :-)
What you asked is what I responded to.
miw
30 Jan 2013, 03:34 PM
I think you need to read a little bit about what was actually happening in the US. They had Mexican gardeners on $13 an hour buying $750k homes. The loans were specifically structured so the first payment was not due for 2 years so that the inevitable and immediate default would not happen until after the loan had been packaged and sold in a CDO. This is not a case of a mortgage broker or bank manager suggesting a few changes to an application. This was top-to-bottom fraud.
Was it as extensive as the US issue, no. It was still fraud and it did happen here.
Edited by Poontang, 30 Jan 2013, 04:50 PM.
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
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miw
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Poontang
30 Jan 2013, 04:50 PM
What you asked is what I responded to.

Was it as extensive as the US issue, no. It was still fraud and it did happen here.
Nope. It's like comparing the Bankstown riots to the Syrian civil war.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Veritas
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Strindberg
30 Jan 2013, 04:48 PM
Veritas
30 Jan 2013, 04:14 PM
This argument has now denigrated into a bun fight about semantics.
No it hasn't. The issue clear. I don't believe there can be any dispute about the the meaning of the word "can".

Your own and Nipa's attempts to bring in other issues are simply tactics to avoid facing the reality that Shadow's claim has been verified by the personal experiences of this forum's posters. These diversionary tactics about outright ownership, what people did in the past, graduates versus others, what happened in the US, community group think, are nothing to do with "semantics".

Invoking semantics is just yet another attempt at diversion using a straw man logical fallacy.
And the argument was won. Convincinly.

What you and Shadow are offering up are fanciful notions of teetotalling, nonsmoking, celibate loners who eat cornflakes for breakfast lunch and dinner saving enough for a deposit and to buy a house.

As I explained earlier you are doing this, because you and Shadow are always on message.

The message is: Housing is not expensive in Australia.

You just find different ways of hammering home that message in the context of different discussions. Day in day out like some kind of internet bot.

Anyway, Ive said my piece on this. I'll leave it to you guys.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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