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A Storm is Brewing for the Australian Economy and Housing Bubble; Ignore the thunder, get washed away in the rain. Troubling combination of factors that cannot be ignored.
Topic Started: 23 Jan 2013, 05:47 AM (23,239 Views)
mango66
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stinkbug
29 Jan 2013, 08:04 AM
Housing is not a right. If you think it is, then please provide evidence showing this to be the case.
Yeah it's not a right stinkbug but I think it should be an option , ie affordable for all.
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Shadow
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Evil Mouzealot Specufestor

mango66
29 Jan 2013, 08:38 AM
Yeah it's not a right stinkbug but I think it should be an option , ie affordable for all.
Housing already is affordable for all. Even someone on minimum wage can afford a home in Australia, and those on below minimum wage (unable/unwilling to work etc) are effectively housed by the government.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Frank Castle
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Business As Usual

mango66
29 Jan 2013, 08:38 AM
ie affordable for all.
Ridiculous

Some people couldn't afford a cardboard box let alone the fridge that came in it
How the hell could they afford (to actually BUY) even the most basic of houses to store the fridge in.

Edited by Frank Castle, 29 Jan 2013, 08:43 AM.
Ignore posts by The Whole Truth · View Post · End Ignoring
The forum fuckwit goes RRRAAARRRGGHHhhh - But not a fuck was given..................by anyone.
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Shadow
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Frank Castle
29 Jan 2013, 08:41 AM
Ridiculous

Some people couldn't afford a cardboard box let alone the fridge that came in it
How the hell could they afford (to actually BUY) even the most basic of houses to store the fridge in.
For most of those people it's more a case of 'unwilling' than 'unable'... i.e. unwilling to do a decent day's work, and unwilling to give up the pokies, ciggies, flash car, bling, or Fiddy Cent lifestyle. But anyone who is willing to work and make a few sacrifices can afford a home in Australia. Most bears who say otherwise obviously fit into the 'unwilling to make sacrifices' category themselves.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Trojan
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peter fraser
29 Jan 2013, 07:41 AM
Can I ask why you believe that housing is a basic right. Wouldn't it be like food, a car, clothes, and everything else that we need? Don't we all have to buy them ourselves? No one gives them to me, do they give them to you?

I never did understand the "Ive got a right to a house" belief - can you explain that to me please?

How do you justify that, and exactly what is your expectation?


"Basic right" as used on this forum means "I deserve to live in a 6x2 at Mosman and shouldn't need to work for it"
I put trolls and time wasters on my ignore list so if I don't respond to you, you are probably on it ....
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stinkbug
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mango66
29 Jan 2013, 08:38 AM
Yeah it's not a right stinkbug but I think it should be an option , ie affordable for all.
Fair enough.

I guess the 'affordable for all' is where the debate starts...
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While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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Admin
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Australian Human Rights Commission: Housing, homelessness and human rights
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Veritas
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Shadow
29 Jan 2013, 08:41 AM
mango66
29 Jan 2013, 08:38 AM
Yeah it's not a right stinkbug but I think it should be an option , ie affordable for all.
Housing already is affordable for all. Even someone on minimum wage can afford a home in Australia, and those on below minimum wage (unable/unwilling to work etc) are effectively housed by the government.
They are not effectively housed by Government.

Tens of thousands of people are on public housing waitlists.

They are on these waitlists because they are unable to afford to access housing in the market proper.

The number of people in this position has grown in line with the increase in median rents during the last decade, which in turn has been affected by demand caused by rising house prices.

The notion that housing is affordable to all in Australia is simply incorrect.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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Shadow
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Veritas
29 Jan 2013, 02:07 PM
They are not effectively housed by Government.

Tens of thousands of people are on public housing waitlists.

They are on these waitlists because they are unable to afford to access housing in the market proper.
So less than half a percent of the population then.

Is their presence on this waitlist permanent?

Or is this just a temporary step whereby they move off the waitlist and into housing at some point?

Where are these tens of thousands of waitlisted people living right now?
Edited by Shadow, 29 Jan 2013, 02:17 PM.
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
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Veritas
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Trojan
29 Jan 2013, 09:54 AM
peter fraser
29 Jan 2013, 07:41 AM
Can I ask why you believe that housing is a basic right. Wouldn't it be like food, a car, clothes, and everything else that we need? Don't we all have to buy them ourselves? No one gives them to me, do they give them to you?

I never did understand the "Ive got a right to a house" belief - can you explain that to me please?

How do you justify that, and exactly what is your expectation?


"Basic right" as used on this forum means "I deserve to live in a 6x2 at Mosman and shouldn't need to work for it"
The starting point for this discussion should be recognition of the fact that housing is an essential good. There are not many essentials but housing is one of them.

From there you can debate the philosophical implications of a man who called a talk back radio station in Perth last week to say that he had two investment properties that he does not rent out because he conisders it too much hassle in a city where women are sleeping in cars with their children for the want of somewhere to live.

There is clearly something very wrong with this system but I expect many will disagree.
Shadow
29 Jan 2013, 02:13 PM
Veritas
29 Jan 2013, 02:07 PM
They are not effectively housed by Government.

Tens of thousands of people are on public housing waitlists.

They are on these waitlists because they are unable to afford to access housing in the market proper.
Is the waitlist permanent? Or is this just a temporary step whereby they move off the waitlist and into housing at some point?

Where are these tens of thousands of waitlisted people living right now?
Its a wait turn system. If you are elligible ( which means you are really poor rather than just hard up) you go onto a waitlist.

The amount of time you wait depends on a basic supply and demand dynamic. At present, every housing authorithy in the country is experiencing unprecedented levels of demand and supply is inadequate.

This is a relatively new phenomonon. Before the housing boom, the fact that Australia has hardly any social housing compared to other OECD countries wasnt a big problem, but it is now.

Where do they live? In various forms of unstable and unsuitable accomadation.

In worst case scenarios, they are effectively homeless.
Edited by Veritas, 29 Jan 2013, 02:18 PM.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?

The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly.
Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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