Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
Investment Portfolio; Against Melbourne/National Property prices.
Topic Started: 16 Dec 2012, 08:34 AM (25,658 Views)
Trojan
Default APF Avatar


Initially you prepaid 12 months of interest on your portfolio. But your portfolio is now over 12 months old. I looked back over the last 2 pages and failed to see where you deducted the interest costs for the last 5 months. Can you please advise which post shows it being deducted?
Poontang
3 Jul 2014, 05:43 PM
It is counted, just because you can not see it.


Rent was $1530 a month first year.. 3% rise for the second year.

Loan repayments for the house are the same amount. Capital Gain on the house would be less interest paid, rates, water rates.






Check 2nd half of page 4 of this thread... Olmule even stated it is a reasonable comparison. There are too many variables than can occur to have a "perfect" comparison. As I stated on we are likely to see 2 outcomes, a reasonably close thing over time or a big blow out in difference of values.


At the moment P1 is down a huge amount and if AYN go under will probably never recover.
At the moment P2 is over $500k on straight up paper values.

1 or 2 years is not sufficient time to assess the failure or success of the comparison of investing and renting vs buying a PPoR.

5 years is a more reasonable time frame. In 5 years the investor is going to pay around $100k in rent and that would be included in the amounts.

The home buyer is going to have interest costs and rates/ water rates and building insurance costs included.




From memeory most of the bulls have shit canned the whole concept any way and I think it was Peter Fraser who suggested that it was too hard to agree on something but it will still be interesting to watch how the mythical portfolio performs..
I look at page 4 and you stated the rent for comparison was $430pw or $1849pm. How did this figure drop to $1530pm now?
Interest repayment on the ppor was $1182 according to your calculations. So you used $1849pm rent paid to balance out an owners interest bill of $1182 plus rates and insurance? I hope you are not trying to imply it costs over $667pm or around $8k per year for rates and insurance?
Poontang
10 Jan 2013, 09:10 PM
I am extremely confident that if the investment portfolio take the 2nd approach it will monster the housing option as far as returns go.
18 months on, how is the "monstering" going?
Edited by Trojan, 3 Jul 2014, 08:39 PM.
I put trolls and time wasters on my ignore list so if I don't respond to you, you are probably on it ....
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Poontang
Member Avatar


The $1530 figure came from post #30...


I was getting ready for Karate so replies were quick but not thorough...


$300 a month on 18 months is less than $5k

Over a five year period it changes $100k to $120k BFD


You are coming across as one who is threatened and intimidated by this portfolio.. months of updates and not a peep from you... I post a cherry picked result of 1 share in another thread and bang, you're posting in 2 different threads virtually demanding an update now.

18 months... Who cares? Investors, be it shares or property invest for the longer term.

A few months ago that portfolio was down into low $300k's and has recovered quite well recently... Does this concern you? $160k added to the portfolio from its low point in a matter of months... Does it concern you that that could occur again in a matter of months and the portfolio be in mid $600k range.. It might, it might not.. wait and see..


Portfolio 2 has over $20k cash, easy enough to take $20k of it to allow for this 12 months interest in advance. Was an oversight not a deliberate attempt to enhance the portfolio performance.


I still seem unable to get my view point across on this, but will try.. again... There are so many variables that can be added/subtracted to this exercise that it can really only be a general comparison. Certainly in respect to figures being close.

A clear indication is more in line with P1 and it being so far down compared to house prices... If AYN does go under, like I said that portfolio will struggle to recover and a clear victory for house is assured.


If things pan out as I expect/hope then P2 will outperform the property.


The forum members that are not anally retentive like yourself would be able to look at the situation at the end of this and go "ok the figures are X" but let's take in account expenditures of a, b and c for the respective choices.


If the figures are close.. there is no point arguing semantics close is close leave it be..


A clear winner, is a clear winner arguing over chump change of a couple of thousand here or there on a difference that could be hundreds of thousands is also pointless...
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Trojan
Default APF Avatar


Poontang
4 Jul 2014, 12:15 AM
The $1530 figure came from post #30...


I was getting ready for Karate so replies were quick but not thorough...


$300 a month on 18 months is less than $5k

Over a five year period it changes $100k to $120k BFD


You are coming across as one who is threatened and intimidated by this portfolio.. months of updates and not a peep from you... I post a cherry picked result of 1 share in another thread and bang, you're posting in 2 different threads virtually demanding an update now.

18 months... Who cares? Investors, be it shares or property invest for the longer term.

A few months ago that portfolio was down into low $300k's and has recovered quite well recently... Does this concern you? $160k added to the portfolio from its low point in a matter of months... Does it concern you that that could occur again in a matter of months and the portfolio be in mid $600k range.. It might, it might not.. wait and see..


Portfolio 2 has over $20k cash, easy enough to take $20k of it to allow for this 12 months interest in advance. Was an oversight not a deliberate attempt to enhance the portfolio performance.


I still seem unable to get my view point across on this, but will try.. again... There are so many variables that can be added/subtracted to this exercise that it can really only be a general comparison. Certainly in respect to figures being close.

A clear indication is more in line with P1 and it being so far down compared to house prices... If AYN does go under, like I said that portfolio will struggle to recover and a clear victory for house is assured.


If things pan out as I expect/hope then P2 will outperform the property.


The forum members that are not anally retentive like yourself would be able to look at the situation at the end of this and go "ok the figures are X" but let's take in account expenditures of a, b and c for the respective choices.


If the figures are close.. there is no point arguing semantics close is close leave it be..


A clear winner, is a clear winner arguing over chump change of a couple of thousand here or there on a difference that could be hundreds of thousands is also pointless...
Lol, why would I feel threatened by a portfolio which has lost half its value in 18 months and half of the remaining portfolio is virtually unsellable :). Meanwhile my properties in Sydney made 20%. You are indeed a funny man. Let's face the truth - you stuffed up your portfolio "monstering" property. No amount of accusing others of "being threatened" is going to change that.

I was only asking questions. It's not like I'm accusing you of lying or cheating but through my questions I have picked up errors in your calculations like forgetting to add interest to your investment portfolio since Feb. If you don't want ppl to check you calculations, maybe you shouldn't have started a thread on it. I'm sorry things haven't turned out the way you have hoped and genuinely hope you haven't invested you hard earned into your portfolio.

I haven't been very active in this forum at all as it is clear properties (especially in Sydney where I have invested) was an easy winner in the last 12 months.
Poontang
11 Jan 2013, 06:16 AM
Share Code


ABY

AVB

AYN

BKP

BPT

CKF

CTN

DUE

EHL

EPX

EVN

FML

GOR

IMF

KRM

MAD

MTS

MXR

NCM

NST

PIO

RAU

SAR

SBM

TGA

TSM
Quantity

43000

229885

555555

1666666

13793

13793

19607

9478

33057

11267

12084

606060

160000

11235

11695

27777

5952

2500000

1000

17094

714284

500000

52631

14652

9706

100000
Buy Price








$0.465

$0.087

$0.036

$0.006

$1.45

$1.45

$1.025

$2.11

$0.605

$1.775

$1.655

$0.033

$0.125

$1.78

$0.885

$0.72

$3.36

$0.004

$21.56

$1.17

$0.028

$0.010

$0.38

$1.365

$2.06

$0.20







Current Price




$0.465

$0.087

$0.036

$0.006

$1.45

$1.45

$1.025

$2.11

$0.605

$1.775

$1.655

$0.033

$0.125

$1.78

$0.885

$0.72

$3.36

$0.004

$21.56

$1.17

$0.028

$0.010

$0.38

$1.365

$2.06

$0.20



Current Value $







20000

20000

20000

10000

20000

20000

20000

20000

20000

20000

20000

20000

20000

20000

10000

20000

20000

10000

21560

20000

20000

5000

20000

20000

20000

20000








Share Portfolio Total $476500
Pre Paid Interest on loan 12 months in advance @ 7.65% $19625
Total $496125

Greensborough is the suburb picked.

Weekly Rent is $430pw $1849pm

House price $480000 + Stamps + Fees $498000

$240000k Deposit $258000 Loan @ 5.5% Fixed 3 Years.

Loan Repayment $1584 per month
Interest Component $1182 per month

I have been assigned to a client so may not be able to update this weekend. Will endeavour to try.

NFI what happened with column headings...

I am not a licensed financial advisor, these are not recommendations and you should seek professional advice before investing. Using figures from an anonymous blogger on an internet forum is not professional financial advice, it is you being stupid


EDITED: SAR and RAU Quantities were in incorrect order. Fixed
2nd Edit Quantity of EHL fixed.
Should not have done this at 4 in the morning.
Yet in post 31 you wrote the above.
I think you have tripped yourself enough. I'll leave you alone now in case it leads you to mistaken it for further signs of "intimidation"
Edited by Trojan, 4 Jul 2014, 01:15 AM.
I put trolls and time wasters on my ignore list so if I don't respond to you, you are probably on it ....
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Poontang
Member Avatar


Trojan
4 Jul 2014, 12:56 AM


I was only asking questions. It's not like I'm accusing you of lying or cheating


I think you have tripped yourself enough.....
Appears to be some contradiction here.. Certainly implies that you are in fact accusing me...
Trojan
4 Jul 2014, 12:56 AM

Yet in post 31 you wrote the above.
You raised the "rent issue" I went back to earlier pages, scanned quickly through posts for a figure, #30 was the first figure I saw, I came back to reply thread and put it down.. Why would I go to the next page when I had a figure to write down.

I already told you I was in a hurry

Trojan
4 Jul 2014, 12:56 AM


If you don't want ppl to check you calculations, maybe you shouldn't have started a thread on it. I'm sorry things haven't turned out the way you have hoped and genuinely hope you haven't invested you hard earned into your portfolio.

I have no problem with people checking figures and calculations...

I'm quite happy with the performance of Portfolio 2 and have quite high expectations of it.. Afterall it is the main portfolio in the comparison.


There was so much hoo hah raised on the first one that's why the second was created so I switched to a portfolio that is a a lot more speculative.

It may turn out to be a bad move or a brilliant move... Fate will decide that one.

I am bullish on silver and expect it to outperform gold.. World economy is improving.. Silver should benefit through its industrial uses. World economy is not improving then silver should benefit with a flock to precious metals mindset.

There are only a few pure silver play miners in Aus. I believed AYN had the most potential. Dollar cost averaging on those shares bring break even price to around $0.005~$0.006..

They may go broke, yes.. I'll cop some shit on the forum.. I've got broad shoulders, I can take it...

They survive and Silver goes up and AYN hits $0.05 and it is a $1m+ portfolio... I won't give anyone shit, but the figures will be there in black and white....
Edited by Poontang, 4 Jul 2014, 09:56 AM.
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Poontang
Member Avatar


Posted Image


EDIT: 60000 SBM @ $0.115 Purchased for P1 Total $6920 to come off cash balance next update









Posted Image



CKF, GOR, NST and SAR have been quite profitable trades

CKF and NST are also dividend paying as well... reasonably happy with it so far...
Edited by Poontang, 7 Jul 2014, 12:37 PM.
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Poontang
Member Avatar


Was not going to post up so soon but due to other thread I felt it warranted...





Posted Image





Posted Image




With 2nd Portfolio Rent payments do not need to be deducted from the portfolio, like the mortgage holder, rent/mortgage are served from wages/income. This does not mean they are dismissed or ignored.

Home buyer bought a home worth $480000 and in 5 years it is worth $850000, (don't get caught up in figures.. just the point I am trying to make) So $370000 Profit, However this person had Interest payments, Council Rates, Water Rates and building insurance to pay over that time. SO those costs would be deducted from the profit.. Then there is remaining balance of loan.


The investor has had interest payments on the loan (these are covered on the go by either dividends or selling sufficient shares and the tax rebate on the borrowing costs. (imputation credits will add more complexity than I am prepared to bother with)


The portfolio goes to $1m (again don't worry about the example figures, just the example). However our investor has spent $135k on rent and the outstanding loan is still to be finalised.

Dollar amounts are tallied up and hopefully there is a clear difference between the 2. A clear difference I would suggest being >$50k between the 2.


If the portfolio is worth $1.5M and the house worth $850k then that would be a clear result, the same as if the portfolio is worth $200k and the house is worth $850k
Edited by Poontang, 15 Jul 2014, 09:51 AM.
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Poontang
Member Avatar


Portfolio 1 sold MXR and BKP for $5450 After Brokerage

Bought 40000 SBM $4620 including brokerage

$830 Cash left over from transaction
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Guest
Unregistered

Poontang
18 Jul 2014, 12:37 PM
Portfolio 1 sold MXR and BKP for $5450 After Brokerage

Bought 40000 SBM $4620 including brokerage

$830 Cash left over from transaction
Hi Poon,

Just curious.

Is your approach to purchase penny stocks (sorry, I don't invest on the stock market and perhaps I have the wrong term), i.e., purchase very large quantity of cheap stock with the long term strategy being that slight increases will have a larger effect on your holdings?

Keen to know what your strategy is in stock selection.

Thank you for sharing.
"REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Poontang
Member Avatar


Guest
19 Jul 2014, 07:20 PM
Hi Poon,

Just curious.

Is your approach to purchase penny stocks (sorry, I don't invest on the stock market and perhaps I have the wrong term), i.e., purchase very large quantity of cheap stock with the long term strategy being that slight increases will have a larger effect on your holdings?

Keen to know what your strategy is in stock selection.

Thank you for sharing.
There is no real strategy. There is no real money at stake so caution can be thrown to the wind....
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Poontang
Member Avatar


Posted Image






Posted Image



Have not checked for latest dividends...
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.
The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy