There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict. Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.
Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
This blew my mind when it was explained to me, If you invest 100k into CCL and it drops 10%, you're back to 90k. A 10% increase in the value of stock gets you back to 99k. You actually need a larger increase to get you back to where you were. Growth is slow but when they drop, its hard and fast.
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict. Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.
Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Any updates and how has Melbourne/national house prices performed in the time you have kept this portfolio. I'm sure the results will be more telling if you add the rent received similar to how you add the dividends received from your portfolio.
I put trolls and time wasters on my ignore list so if I don't respond to you, you are probably on it ....
Any updates and how has Melbourne/national house prices performed in the time you have kept this portfolio. I'm sure the results will be more telling if you add the rent received similar to how you add the dividends received from your portfolio.
I update every month or so.
There is no rent received. The comparison is not shares vs investment property. The comparison is renting and investing vs buyiing a PPoR.
1st portfolio was against Melbourne prices. Shadow may have the needed data for that. From memory Melbourne went up about 10% last year and has given up this years gains to be neutral for the year (so still up from last year)
2nd portfolio was against Greensborough, based on a $480k median house price at the time vs current $537k Up about 10%
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict. Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.
Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Any updates and how has Melbourne/national house prices performed in the time you have kept this portfolio. I'm sure the results will be more telling if you add the rent received similar to how you add the dividends received from your portfolio.
I update every month or so.
There is no rent received. The comparison is not shares vs investment property. The comparison is renting and investing vs buyiing a PPoR.
1st portfolio was against Melbourne prices. Shadow may have the needed data for that. From memory Melbourne went up about 10% last year and has given up this years gains to be neutral for the year (so still up from last year)
2nd portfolio was against Greensborough, based on a $480k median house price at the time vs current $537k Up about 10%
Even if comparing to owning a PPOR, you need to factor in rent (imputed rent), as the alternative to owning is paying rent to someone else. You cannot just ignore this in any comparison like the one you are trying to make.
EDIT: For example, say I own a PPOR outright (so pay no interest and no rent, and assume no other costs to keep it simple). If was to sell, and invest the money in shares, and then rent, I would need to make an investment return of *at least* the cost of my rent, after tax, to break even, assuming 0% house price growth. If house prices rose, I would need to make at least my rent + the increase in house prices (both after tax), to end up in an equivelant financial position compared to not selling and just living in my house rent and interest free.
The comparison is renting and investing vs buyiing a PPoR.
In that case, why isn't rent being deducted from your portfolio every month? What you are really comparing is buying your ppor to live in vs living on the streets and investing in your portfolio.
Even with you unfair comparison, the person on the street is still turning out financially worst off!
In that case, why isn't rent being deducted from your portfolio every month? What you are really comparing is buying your ppor to live in vs living on the streets and investing in your portfolio.
Even with you unfair comparison, the person on the street is still turning out financially worst off!
It is counted, just because you can not see it.
Rent was $1530 a month first year.. 3% rise for the second year.
Loan repayments for the house are the same amount. Capital Gain on the house would be less interest paid, rates, water rates.
Check 2nd half of page 4 of this thread... Olmule even stated it is a reasonable comparison. There are too many variables than can occur to have a "perfect" comparison. As I stated on we are likely to see 2 outcomes, a reasonably close thing over time or a big blow out in difference of values.
At the moment P1 is down a huge amount and if AYN go under will probably never recover. At the moment P2 is over $500k on straight up paper values.
1 or 2 years is not sufficient time to assess the failure or success of the comparison of investing and renting vs buying a PPoR.
5 years is a more reasonable time frame. In 5 years the investor is going to pay around $100k in rent and that would be included in the amounts.
The home buyer is going to have interest costs and rates/ water rates and building insurance costs included.
From memeory most of the bulls have shit canned the whole concept any way and I think it was Peter Fraser who suggested that it was too hard to agree on something but it will still be interesting to watch how the mythical portfolio performs..
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict. Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.
Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
Rent was $1530 a month first year.. 3% rise for the second year.
Loan repayments for the house are the same amount. Capital Gain on the house would be less interest paid, rates, water rates. ..... The home buyer is going to have interest costs and rates/ water rates and building insurance costs included.
I see, you are assuming that the money for the house was borrowed and interest has to be paid but the $240k and $480k for the share portfolios wasn't. Get real.
On another point, its a bit cheeky to be saying the current market value of the AYN shares in portfolio 1 is $23,500. The market value is actually zero. There is no market in AYN shares, and hasn't been for many weeks, even months, and probably never will be ever again.
I see, you are assuming that the money for the house was borrowed and interest has to be paid but the $240k and $480k for the share portfolios wasn't. Get real.
On another point, its a bit cheeky to be saying the current market value of the AYN shares in portfolio 1 is $23,500. The market value is actually zero. There is no market in AYN shares, and hasn't been for many weeks, even months, and probably never will be ever again.
You probably need to go back and read the start of the comparison too...
They both start with $240k and borrow..
The investor has interest on the loan to pay and that is included too....
I own AYN and they still show as a value on my portfolio so they will show as a value on these portfolios. They may be currently suspended from trading but they still have a value.
Investor would have had around $60k in costs so with a tax rebate on the interest for the loans in the region of $10k to $11k so real cost around $50k
Property owner would have had interest costs and other charges up in the mid to high teens....
There are some people who seem angry and continuously look for conflict. Walk away, the battle they are fighting isn't with you, it's with themselves.
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is not enough of anything to satisfy all who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. ~ Thomas Sowell.
Who was the fool, who the wise man, who the beggar or the Emperor? Whether rich or poor, all are equal in death.
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