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Kneeling to NIMBYism is a luxury Australia can no longer afford; Sydney needs homes for all, not just the NIMBYs
Topic Started: 16 Nov 2012, 08:39 PM (4,473 Views)
Kulganis
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I live within walking distance of at least 2 miners houses, both more than 100 years old, kept in very nice condition. I would hate to see their listings taken away for development. Their owners love them to bits.

But that isn't much of a problem, there is plenty of space around them to put in skyscrapers.
"If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life's exciting variety, not something to fear." - Gene Roddenberry

"Balloon animals are a great way to teach children that the things they love dearly, may spontaneously explode" -- Lee Camp
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NIMBYs have hijacked Sydney's housing future

January 9, 2014
Chris Johnson

The boom in apartment approvals in Sydney has set off a wave of nimby reaction against what many community groups see as an attack on suburban living.

The reaction has been so strong that the NSW government's proposed planning reforms have beem mortally wounded and a number of proposed urban activation precincts are on hold.

A major lifestyle battle is emerging between the champions of detached housing in suburbia and the urban dwellers living in apartments.

Sydney is going through a cultural change, with strong support for apartment living from Gen X and Gen Y, as well as downsizing baby boomers.

The statistics demonstrate the swing that is happening. The 2011 census showed Sydney's apartments comprised 25.8 per cent of all householders, and each month apartment approvals seem to outnumber house approvals. In September 2013 the latest update on the Department of Planning's website showed 75 per cent of Sydney housing approvals were for apartments.

It is clear that more and more people are preferring an urban lifestyle close to amenities and work. It is likely that Sydney will be half houses and half apartments in 20 years.

The ideals of the garden city movement that led to suburbia as a part country, part city lifestyle are seen by many as a core Australian value. The film The Castle lauded the importance of owning your own detached house with surrounding gardens.

In the upper North Shore, action group Save Our Suburbs (SOS) has led an attack on the evils of the high-rise apartment block. From this group has emerged the Better Planning Network, which organised up to 500 community action groups to fight the planning reforms proposed by the NSW government.

Those against the much needed planning reforms focused on a key component called "Code Assessable" and generated a fear campaign that this would lead to high-rise apartments being built in suburban backyards without any notification.

Radio commentators fuelled the fear and the Greens called the reforms pro developer and anti community. But behind all the blustering was the concern that Sydney was at a tipping point in a lifestyle change from being a suburban city to becoming an urban city.

It is interesting to compare the changing nature of Sydney with Vancouver in Canada. That city's census in 2011 measured apartments at 40.1 per cent of households, duplexes and terraced houses at 26 per cent and detached houses at 33.9 per cent. The Sydney detached housing percentage in 2011 was 60.9 per cent, almost double the Vancouver figure.

Sydney is clearly different to Vancouver, but the trend towards urban living is similar. With another 1.5 million people coming to Sydney over the next 20 years, it is highly likely that a majority will end up in apartments. Many of the immigrants come from cultures where urban apartment living is the norm.

So Sydney has a dilemma. The O'Farrell government has stated that it will hand planning power back to the community. The action groups that claim to represent the community are against apartment living but more and more people in the community want to live in apartments.

Further, a growing number of people in the community can only afford apartments with the price of detached dwellings at all-time highs.

Read more: http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/nimbys-have-hijacked-sydneys-housing-future-20140109-30j2k.html
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skamy
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Nimbys have a right to express opinions or objections which are then put to scrutiny within the planning process. They cannot introduce new things to complain about - they have to have genuine concerns or they would be ignored. Planning in Australia is mostly quite good and our cities are growing without destroying our heritage. The last thing we want at this stage of the cycle is runaway developments blighting our cities as they have in other Countries. Lack of good planning controls was a major factor in Ireland's many difficulties, for example.

These Herald the Sun type articles are all about tarnishing the voice of the local community for the benefit of developers who go in and buy land with certain zoning or heritage properties then try to make a motza by over riding these restrictions. The other thing that developers get the bears running around spruiking for them is changing farmland zoning.

I too have been on both sides and have had to suck up silly objections and had my own objections overruled but I believe we do need good planning and I am very glad that local people get a voice in the process.

I know I am always saying this but folk should really read the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists- it is a British classic about poor people being kind and charitable to the rich directly against their own interests. Here we have normal people calling themselves NIMBYs and objecting to their own rights in the planning process just because the developers have sold them a fairy tale of cheaper housing. All courtesy of the Herald the Sun.

Maybe I am wrong and the likes of Kinesescope are indeed representatives for big developers not ragged trousered philanthropists at all. He certainly sound like one with his calls for unrestricted building in the best transport locations regardless of the heritage, the parks and the voice of the local people.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993
The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
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Blondie girl
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Skamy
It really depends on the situation:not everything that's heritage is worth saving .

I do believe that Perth still has a long way to go in I proving its current infastructure. Just drive on our freeways, we've still got dual lanes in some areas! :lol

I experienced an objection of my parapet wall proposal, I had to get the neighbors permission as it was a height that was just a little higher than normal, well the neighbor knocked it back.. ;)

Oh well, the neighbor on the other side has this very big tree that puts lot of crap on their roof..I say karma.
Newjerk? can you try harder than dig up another person's blog. My first promo was with Billabong and my name in English is modified with a T, am Perth born but also lived in Sydney to make my $$
It's Absolutely Fabulous if it includes brilliant locations, & high calibre tenants..what more does one want? Understand the power of the two "P"" or be financially challenged
Even better when there is family who are property mad and one is born in some entitlements.....Understand that beautiful women are the exhibitionists we crave attention, whilst hot blooded men are the voyeurs ... A stunning woman can command and takes pleasure in being noticed. Seems not too many understand what it means to hold and own props and get threatened by those who do.
Banks are considered to be law abiding and & rather boring places yeah not true . A bank balance sheet will show capital is dwarfed by their liabilities this means when a portions of loans is falling its problems for the bank.
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skamy
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I have been on both sides as I said, we have had loads of silly objections to the first home we built as all the neighbours had been using the block for parking. It did go through in the end. However, I would never agree with anyone who would try to take away peoples right to object - it is just not necessary, the planning laws are what they are and if the objection has no merit there are plenty of routes people can pursue to ensure it does not influence planning.
It is really not so hard to develop within the law and avoid problems with locals. Unrestored heritage homes are cheaper because of planning restrictions so that does offset the hassle and when a heritage home is done well it can sell for a fortune.


The city would be terrible if they raze all the lovely old houses or build too close or in between avenues of homes, and/or destroy old gardens. The likes of Kinesescope would have developers raze the terraces in The Rocks in Sydney, building with inadequate parking provision, and building into parklands, razing trees and gardens etc etc. Why because they are close to a railway line? What stupidity and how shortsighted is that?


Every major city in the world allows locals a say in the planning process but Kinesescope joins with news corp to name call local people and try to remove their rights. He is an absolute charlatan I say.


:dry:
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993
The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
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Dr Kinetoscope
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skamy
10 Jan 2014, 01:43 PM
Nimbys have a right to express opinions or objections which are then put to scrutiny within the planning process.

Non-owner taxpayers in the area deserve a stronger voice. Currently they have no voice.

Quote:
 
These Herald the Sun type articles are all about tarnishing the voice of the local community for the benefit of developers who go in and buy land with certain zoning or heritage properties then try to make a motza by over riding these restrictions.
These Herald the Sun types also tarnish the voice of non-owner taxpayers by running consistent misleading (often paid for by agents or developers) articles spruiking property. What is your point here sKamy? The corruption of these articles benefits property bulls far more than bears.

Quote:
 
the likes of Kinesescope are indeed representatives for big developers not ragged trousered philanthropists at all. He certainly sound like one with his calls for unrestricted building in the best transport locations regardless of the heritage, the parks and the voice of the local people.
If you will kindly turn back a page or two in this thread where I enthusiastically promote saving heritage properties . . . .

Quote:
 
The city would be terrible if they raze all the lovely old houses or build too close or in between avenues of homes, and/or destroy old gardens. The likes of Kinesescope would have developers raze the terraces in The Rocks in Sydney, building with inadequate parking provision, and building into parklands, razing trees and gardens etc etc.
Again with this? You are among the worst arguers and debaters I have ever come across. You just invent lies and repeat them until you hope they stick.
Edited by Dr Kinetoscope, 11 Jan 2014, 08:23 AM.
Architecture Porn
ShadBerg's torrid Macrobusiness love affair
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skamy
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I am only trying to show you that these articles in the Herald the Sun are not really your cup of tea (with a bit of teasing because you are always so serious).

They have everything to do with dis-empowering local input to planning and everything to do with people who want to buy with one set of codes and regulations and build with another. These are the only folk who stand to benefit from silencing the locals. Locals cannot ask for the planning regs to be changed they can only try to insist that they are respected.

At the moment in Sydney I would think there area large number of proposals going through planning,this type of article discredits local input. Can't you see that? Do you seriously think these developers will pass on the extra money they make and offer the projects for sale cheaper?

This has nothing to do with housing affordability, and IMHO actually serves to distract from real initiatives that could help provide affordable housing.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993
The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
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Sydneysiders have no love of apartment living

January 18, 2014
Tony Recsei

Planning in NSW is at a crossroads. Chris Johnson, chief executive of Urban Taskforce (an organisation representing property developers), laments the fact that the state government's proposed new planning legislation has been derailed (''Public interest tuned out in city-suburb battle'', News Review, January 11). He implies that a boom in apartment approvals is a result of consumer demand and that opposition to this is mere NIMBY reaction.

While there will always be people who resist any kind of change, to blame NIMBYism for the community resistance to high-density apartments is disingenuous. A multitude of academic surveys has shown that the overwhelming preference by Sydneysiders is for single-residential living rather than apartments. Additionally, a widely based association of community groups, including Save Our Suburbs, recently conducted a survey with more than 1000 respondents in many electorates that showed 96 per cent of people believe high-rise apartments must not replace family homes in low-density suburbs.

The reason for the quoted boom in apartment approvals is primarily due to government policy. Choice has been compromised. To drive people into high-density living, the state government reduced the release of new housing sites from a historic 10,000 per year average to less than 2000. The ensuing cumulative shortage has resulted in insufficient houses being available to meet demand, driving a frightening escalation in housing costs. Mr Johnson compares Sydney with Vancouver, where similar policies were applied. Vancouver is now second to Hong Kong in having the most unaffordable housing in 337 metropolitan markets surveyed (Sydney is in the unenviable position of being third-most unaffordable).

Far from improving transport, high density in Vancouver has resulted in the 14th-worst traffic congestion of 197 large metropolitan areas surveyed in the US, Europe and Canada. Although in higher densities a slightly greater percentage of people use public transport, this is completely overwhelmed by the greater number of people crammed into a given area. They still have to use their cars where direct public transport does not reach their destination or when public transport is completely unsuitable (such as when transporting heavy shopping, pets or bulky sports equipment).

What is more, high density is less environmentally sustainable than single-residential living. Per person energy use in Australian high density is double that of single-residences due to factors such as lifts and airconditioning and lighting common areas, according to a 2005 study by Energy Australia and the Department of Planning.

Australia is not exactly short of land. Only 0.3 per cent of the continent's surface is urbanised. There is plenty of room to expand Sydney on degraded farmland, say along the road to Goulburn. The Sydney basin covers an area of 44,000 square kilometres while the area of present Sydney contiguous development is only about 1800 square kilometres. A mere 20 square kilometres is used for vegetable production and this can easily be conserved.

The median dwelling price in Sydney is a whopping $650,000, of which the land component constitutes 70 per cent.

Read more: http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/sydneysiders-have-no-love-of-apartment-living-20140121-315jk.html
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Millennials pushed out of suburbs by NIMBY baby boomers who oppose development
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Ex BP Golly
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Nimby-ists are easily fixed.

I listened to the whine over the Gladseville bridge upgrade, that they now all love, they whine about the tram out to Randwick etc,

All of this stalling, appeasing and compromise costs a fortune when you have to buyback ground at $1,000,000 per 25 metres.

Leave the nimby crowd to wallow in their filth and build new cities, planned and coordinated from day one.

Just one big city centre with radiating infrastructure and Gazetted corridors is all it would take to shift knee jerk nimby reactionism to bimby reactionary-ism

BUILD IN MY BACKYARD YARD

WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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