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Anthropogenic Climate Change and Religion / Belief in a God; Do anthropogenic climate change alarmists also believe in god?
Topic Started: 31 Oct 2012, 11:00 AM (27,160 Views)
miw
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Interesting stuff. But totally irrelevant to the substantive. I am assuming you agree with the below. I'll answer you when you've answered me. It's about 6 posts now that you have tactically ignored this.

But getting back to the real world, the mechanism by which increasing the concentration in the atmosphere of "greenhouse" gases increases the temperature at the Earth's surface is pretty uncontroversial and backed by the physics. Given that the increase in these gases is mostly anthropogenic, finding out that there was *no* AGW would be a very surprising result indeed.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
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Andrew Judd
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miw
30 Nov 2012, 07:39 PM
Interesting stuff. But totally irrelevant to the substantive. I am assuming you agree with the below. I'll answer you when you've answered me. It's about 6 posts now that you have tactically ignored this.

But getting back to the real world, the mechanism by which increasing the concentration in the atmosphere of "greenhouse" gases increases the temperature at the Earth's surface is pretty uncontroversial and backed by the physics. Given that the increase in these gases is mostly anthropogenic, finding out that there was *no* AGW would be a very surprising result indeed.
I have felt no need to answer it again since i have already several times answered it for you.

http://australianpropertyforum.com/single/?p=8360444&t=9750558

http://australianpropertyforum.com/single/?p=8360669&t=9750558

I was wondering why you mentioned Boyles law

I am still wondering what that has to do with warming caused by C02 or other "greenhouse" gases.

Edited by Andrew Judd, 30 Nov 2012, 08:06 PM.
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Admin
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Six degrees of devastation

December 8, 2012
Adam Morton, Ben Cubby, Tom Arup and Nicky Phillips

IT'S 2100. A sci-fi movie version of the future is finally here – flying cars, robots, choking pollution. Oh, and the planet is 5 degrees hotter than it was at the turn of the millennium. It’s nearly 90 years since scientists warned (again) that the planet could warm by between 4 and 6 degrees if we didn’t cut greenhouse gas emissions. We didn’t, and it did.

The average global temperature, for night and day, is now 19 degrees, up from 14 degrees at the turn of the 20th century.

The best scientific estimates suggest that the last time it was this hot was during the Eocene, more than 30 million years ago, and long before humans turned up. Back then, temperatures rose gradually over many thousands of years. We've watched it happen in 100.

What is life like? Australia is both unrecognisable and strangely familiar. In the south-east, where the population is increasingly concentrated, it is hot and dry. If the average day is warmer, the warmest days are that much hotter again. Daily temperatures above 35 degrees are more frequent: there are twice as many of these scorchers in Sydney and Melbourne than a century ago.

Meanwhile, the colder days have melted away like the snow at Thredbo and Mount Buller. This is a relief in winter, but not much fun in summer, unless you live in Tasmania, which has inherited Sydney's climate. Sydney is more like Rockhampton: too hot and humid for too much of the year.

Weather similar to Victoria's summer of 2009 – when scientists estimated that 374 people, mostly elderly, died due to heat stress as the temperature topped 43 degrees three days straight – has become more common. And people now die because of heat-related stress throughout the year. Temperature-related deaths have jumped in Western Australia, tripled in Queensland and increased nearly sevenfold in the Northern Territory.

Rainfall is down more than 35 per cent in Melbourne across the year, and has halved in summer. But when it rains, it rains harder. There are more floods, more severe wind storms, more bushfires and more frequent droughts.

The warming has reduced the number of people that die in southern states in winter. But more Australians are dying due to extreme heat than are surviving because of warmer winters.

Mosquito and water-borne diseases such as dengue fever have migrated south to New South Wales. The number of people hurt or killed during extreme weather events, and the amount of property damaged, has also increased.

This hasn't escaped the attention of the insurance industry, which has escalated premiums at such a rate that it has priced most people out of the market, leaving more of the population reliant on governments to step in if disaster strikes. Taxes have been raised to foot the bill.

Water has also become much more expensive. The desalination plants that seemed premature early last century are now used daily in NSW, Victoria, South Australia and southern Western Australia – and we've built more. We have also got used to drinking and bathing in recycled sewerage water.

Lots of farms have shut down – more than 90 per cent of dairy and fruit and vegetable production from irrigated farms in the Murray-Darling Basin has ceased. Instead, crops previously grown in hotter areas such as sorghum are planted in winter. It had been hoped that the north of Australia could be transformed into the "food basin of Asia" as tropical weather spread south, bringing a more intense wet season. But an increasingly temperamental monsoon means these crops are also at risk of drying up when "the wet" doesn't arrive.

The government has intervened to ban food exports, just as Russia was mocked for doing during droughts early last century. The states have started stockpiling food, fearing shortages will lead to riots. Countries are increasingly focusing inwards – other nations be damned.

Food production has become more technical. Concerns about genetically modified foods largely evaporated as the need to feed people took precedence. As the World Bank predicted long ago, Australian farms no longer yield anything like what they once did. Those that have survived are bigger and (like everything) more mechanised.

Wheat production has plummeted and the wine industry has shrunk, with fewer vineyards and poorer grape quality. Where mining was once Australia's fly-in, fly-out industry, now it is agriculture.

Small towns in country Australia are on their knees. People are clustered more than ever in big cities. The divide between the wealthy, living in inner-suburban bubbles, and the poor in the disconnected outer suburbs, has been cemented.

The economy has taken a hit as export markets have declined. Mining, and particularly fossil-fuel industries, has suffered as the world belatedly looked for new forms of energy. Australia's tourism industry, once worth $35 billion a year, has suffered from the disappearance of the Great Barrier Reef and the snowfields.

Regions have also been hit by the rising intensity of bushfires. The lure of a "tree-change" is gone: now, the ideal is living in a secure, heavily insulated and airconditioned high-rise built from sturdy but light-weight and fire-resistant fibres.

Where summer was once a season to be celebrated at the beach, for many people it is increasingly spent indoors, with outdoor work timed to avoid searing afternoon summer temperatures across most of the country.

The Australian landscape has suffered: more than a third of native species have died, more of the outback has eroded to desert and more than half of all eucalypt habitat is gone forever. The tropics – once home to 700 species of plants, 13 species of mammals found nowhere else on the planet, a quarter of Australia's frogs, a third of its freshwater fish and nearly half of its birds – have been devastated.

Along the coast, much of the country's iconic reef has been killed off by a combination of heat and changes in ocean chemistry. Oceans have become what is described as more acidic, but in reality the water is less alkaline. Ocean ecosystems have been ruptured, with scientists warning a mass extinction is under way. This has devastated commercial fishing and coastal regional communities.

Meanwhile, coastal communities, suburbs and tourism have been further hit by sea-level rise, now approaching a metre this century. Metres more are locked-in for coming centuries as the guaranteed melting of major ice sheets slowly unfolds. An old rule of thumb says that for every centimetre of sea-level rise, the shoreline retreats by 50 centimetres to a metre.

While the retreat of the shoreline has been inconsistent due to seawalls and other defensive projects, once cherished beaches such as Bondi and Bells have eroded away and bay and seaside suburbs have been regularly inundated following worsening storms surges . The damage from surges associated with rising seas reaches tens of billions of dollars. Eventually, authorities considered closing off Sydney Harbour and Port Phillip to protect coastal properties from the ocean.

At Sydney airport, one runway and several taxiways are occasionally swamped.

While Australia has felt the impact of rising seas, the damage is nothing compared with cities in Asia, where tens of millions – some say hundreds of millions – of people have been displaced by drought and rising seas and are looking for a new home. If you thought the public debate in Australia over asylum seekers in the early 21st century was acrimonious, you haven't seen anything yet.

THIS scenario is, of course, just one possible vision of the future. Whether it is alarming, alarmist or conservative will depend on your perspective. It is drawn from studies by and interviews with a dozen experts from the Bureau of Meteorology, CSIRO, leading Australian universities and major consultancies. Some of it is based on published research, some educated speculation about how people may respond.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/six-degrees-of-devastation-20121207-2b1d5.html
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Andrew Judd
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Meanwhile back in reality it is today probably colder or the same temperature as 1000 years ago and the Earth is not definately in a warmer period than prior to industrialisation.

The Climategate emails showed that the researchers know they are bending the truth to support a cause where many of the researchers know there is so much uncertainty to their cause that even they do not know if it is getting warmer or colder compared to recent periods before industrialisation.

Why are people attempting to erase the idea of previous cooling and warming periods from the scientific record so they can say with authority todays warming is significant?

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Edited by Andrew Judd, 9 Dec 2012, 08:14 PM.
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Thatguy
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Andrew Judd
9 Dec 2012, 08:03 PM
Meanwhile back in reality it is today probably colder or the same temperature as 1000 years ago and the Earth is not definately in a warmer period than prior to industrialisation.

The Climategate emails showed that the researchers know they are bending the truth to support a cause where many of the researchers know there is so much uncertainty to their cause that even they do not know if it is getting warmer or colder compared to recent periods before industrialisation.

Why are people attempting to erase the idea of previous cooling and warming periods from the scientific record so they can say with authority todays warming is significant?

Posted Image

Time to go out and replenish the tin foil ?
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NotFooled
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The Bear Whisperer

Thatguy
10 Dec 2012, 09:57 AM
Time to go out and replenish the tin foil ?
Andrew Judd is a pure, unadulterated nutter who is blind to the overwhelming evidence against his anti anthropogenic climate change belief. I have to wonder if he also believes that the 2nd coming of Jesus is imminent.
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Gossamer
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Shadow
31 Oct 2012, 11:00 AM
Following on from this thread, I was wondering how many anthropogenic climate change alarmists also believe in a god?

The anthropogenic climate change theory is more like a religion than science. Everyone knows the climate has always been influenced by natural forces, and has been changing for billions of years, before humans were around. Any impact of humans on climate change is unknown and can't be measured in isolation from those natural causes. Therefore it is impossible to demonstrate that current changes in the climate (temperature, sea levels, ice caps, extreme weather events etc) are caused predominantly by humans rather than other natural forces. There is no evidence. All the alarmists have is their faith... it's like a religion.

Climate change alarmists talk about a 'consensus' by which they really mean a majority opinion. There is no true consensus on anthropogenic climate change any more than there is a consensus on the existence of a god (the majority of people also believe in some form of a god, despite the lack of evidence).

I don't see how it would be possible for a climate change alarmist to also believe in a god. Because those who believe in a god generally believe the god is responsible for everything, which would have to include responsibility for the climate - i.e. humans can't be causing climate change if a god is responsible for it. Alternatively they might argue that god is responsible for what humans do, therefore climate change is god's will.

Personally I don't believe in a god, and I believe climate change is natural. Humans may contribute to it, but humans are a part of nature too, and our influence is probably tiny compared to the massive influence from non-human sources. Any influence we may have on the climate will also change naturally as we inevitably move to alternative energy sources. Regardless of what humans do, nature will continue to adapt to changes in the climate (while also causing changes to the climate) as has been the case for billions of years. Humans can't prevent this from happening... we will simply continue to adapt along with the rest of nature.
Interesting to note that the category which has the most votes to date is for people who do not beleive in God but do believe in anthropogenic climate change.
Edited by Gossamer, 10 Dec 2012, 11:26 AM.
Common sense is a curse - those who have it need to suffer dealing with those who don't have it.

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Nelson
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Andrew Judd
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Time to go out and replenish the tin foil ?


NotFooled
10 Dec 2012, 10:09 AM
Andrew Judd is a pure, unadulterated nutter


The new science in action.

Edited by Andrew Judd, 10 Dec 2012, 04:06 PM.
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NotFooled
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Andrew Judd
10 Dec 2012, 04:03 PM
The new science in action.
You're the one arguing rabidly against the overwhelming scientific consensus. Feel free to show us your peer reviewed jurnal submissions that overturn the evidence.
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Andrew Judd
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NotFooled
10 Dec 2012, 04:07 PM
You're the one arguing rabidly against the overwhelming scientific consensus.
I am not.

The scientific consensus is the belief that humans are measureably warming the planet

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