4: Increasing unemployment: Forget the ABS 5.1%!!!
are you really going to be this stupid all the time?
Timo
8 Oct 2012, 11:57 AM
FHB - can't afford to pay 500k for a flimsy box in the middle of no where anymore.
the national average house price is $567k. FHB should expect to purchase well below this. I've already detailed in other threads that a new house and land comes in at $320k in an outer perth burb.
You'll never hear any of the Property Pig brigade say that its not the time to buy, even when conditions are ripe for financial loss and devastation, there's "never been a better time to buy. Here are just 5 reasons it has NEVER been a worse time to buy real estate in Australia.
1: Housing Finance: At a 35 year low! Who is taking out the loans? Perhaps a few wealthy fools with more money then sense, hence the alleged "increase in capital house prices". Debunked.
2: New home sales: At a 15 year low! The typical victims the Australian Ponzi Scheme relies most heavily on - FHB - can't afford to pay 500k for a flimsy box in the middle of no where anymore. Which brings me to my next point.
3: Building company collapse: Building companies folding at record pace, on the east coast of Australia alone in March of this year 80 building companies went under! Adding to our increasing unemployment rate by the fistful.
4: Increasing unemployment: Forget the ABS 5.1%!!! They classify an employed person as working more then 1 hour of paid work per week! 1 Hour!!! Roy Morgan is a much better bet at 10% identifies both those unemployed and underemployed (the ones living off 1 hour p/week!). Look also to the drop in retail spending, where is it going? Straight to the banks in interest, while companies go under and jobs are lost.
5: Mining slowdown: This is a biggie and well known. Discussed on here in a previous thread, this spells major trouble for the continued wealth and success of Australia. Apart from income lost, jobs are going too. BHP didn't delay a multi-billion dollar expansion for nothing, these guys don't make a killing by making stupid decisions. They know the game is up, and mining will never be the same again.
The irony about the current state of the Real Estate market is that immoral and wealthy welfare tax dodge aka negative gearing is Government sanctioned! There are a whole cohort of greedy property investors and the like that will claim they are putting a roof "over your head"! Meanwhile property infestors buy established properties 92% of the time, which does NOTHING to contribute to housing stock. It simply makes it even less affordable for the average young Australian family to put a roof over their own heads.
Don't despair however folks, the market is poised to crash, poised to revert to the long term trend and restore some balance and equity in the Australian economy. So my message is continue to watch your healthy deposits grow and grow, while house prices come down and down. It will result in a more sustainable Australia for everyone.
Cheers!
I hope you feel better after the whinge? I respect your right to voice your opinion. This is a public forum after all. I don't necessarily disagree that there are greedy property investors in every market. However, the disappointing thing is, despite how intently you ascribe your own personal moral judgement of how things/people ought to behaviour (informed by your own subjective moral compass), it is unlikely to have significant influence on the actual market outcome. The more productive discussion, would perhaps be providing the reasons why you believe the market is poise to crash (which you have started to) and explain what you mean by revert to long-term trend.
Timo: "Hoping that ordinary Australians can afford a home and roof over thier head is not greed, i leave greed up to the property pigs who hope to take away peoples basic rights in life. Your conduct and greed is unconscionable."
Buying an IP is not unconscionable Timo. (Unless one is a Socialist who believes that all housing and health and education needs and such like should be providing to everyone by the State perhaps?)
Indeed neg gearing of IPs is not even unconscionable - Rather neg gearing is the bait that govs use to suck people in who without it wouldn't touch an IP with a barge pole because of all the hassle that comes with IPs so that the gov (ie the tax payer generally) doesn't have to foot the bill (and put up with the hassle) of providing rental accommodation.
You're going after the wrong people in attacking property investors and indeed anyone generally whose bought a dwelling over the last decade or so - Ie over the time prices especially bolted.
Your PIs and home purchasers generally are plebs - Same as you. And me. Maybe they've been "lucky" plebs as you say - To date anyway; But it wasn't them who created the world wide credit conditions that led to property bubbles pretty much everywhere - You can lay that one at the feet of a small number of far more financially sophisticated parties who funded the whole affair.
Your PIs and home purchasers generally are plebs - Same as you. And me. Maybe they've been "lucky" plebs as you say - To date anyway; But it wasn't them who created the world wide credit conditions that led to property bubbles pretty much everywhere - You can lay that one at the feet of a small number of far more financially sophisticated parties who funded the whole affair.
yep
APF - a place where serious people don't take themselves too seriously. There's nothing else like it.
Can I ask, when did owning your own property became a basic right? Where did this perception come from? What is wrong with renting? Are you insinuating that renting is somehow sub-optimal? When did investing in property automatically became greedy? What assumptions are you making?
Can I ask, when did owning your own property became a basic right? Where did this perception come from? What is wrong with renting? Are you insinuating that renting is somehow sub-optimal? When did investing in property automatically became greedy? What assumptions are you making?
Renting is smart if your career dictates you move every few years. A lot of wealthy people rent, by choice. It's also smart when prices are falling. It was the banks that pushed the idea that you are too stupid to save so you may as well take on a mortgage for a house, at least that way you are buying something and not pissing all your money away. That sort of twisted psychology, taken out a few decades led people to believe that increasing their mortgage to build a deck and gazebo, or put a pool, would increase the value of their property.
Trouble is, 20 years later when they go to sell it and downsize the deck has rotted out and the pool is cracked and up for a 10k repair. I have seen it all, utter stupidity all bred from a bunch of tv shows. Paying down their mortgage as fast as possible and then wisely saving and investing would have been the intelligent course of action. This is why I know it is all going to blow up, everyone nearly has behaved incredibly stupidly with their finances. The money I have seen people waste is phenomenal, all with interest attached of course.
stinkbug
8 Oct 2012, 01:31 PM
Pretty sure you're just trolling now.
Everyone knows that for a massive property crash to occur there haave to be an economic armaggedon, meaning most Australians would be much worse off.
You may have this back the front? A massive house price crash would lead to an economic armaggedeon. At least that is how it seems to have occured in spain, Ireland, the USA, and all the other screwed up economies
Negative gearing is a form of leveraged speculation in which a speculator borrows money to buy an asset, but the income generated by that asset does not cover the interest on the loan
A negative gearing strategy can only make a profit if the asset rises so much in price that the capital gain is more than the sum of the ongoing losses over the life of the speculation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing
Renting is smart if your career dictates you move every few years. A lot of wealthy people rent, by choice. It's also smart when prices are falling. It was the banks that pushed the idea that you are too stupid to save so you may as well take on a mortgage for a house, at least that way you are buying something and not pissing all your money away. That sort of twisted psychology, taken out a few decades led people to believe that increasing their mortgage to build a deck and gazebo, or put a pool, would increase the value of their property.
I agree. Renting offers flexibility to renters. As you mentioned, a lot of smart and wealthy people rent by choice. In order to satisfy the rental demand, there needs to be rental properties. So while the renters seek to make the best financial decisions suitable for their situations (i.e. rent), facilitated by the property investors - Timo attempts to eliminate this option for these smart and wealth people. I'm not I sure follow that logic.
But then again, I don't get the seemingly contradictory statements from Timo: "Do Not Buy Australian Real Estate" and "Australians can afford a home..... peoples basic rights in life" If it's a basic right, then why can't people who can afford a home now, buy - I thought it's their right? I can only infer that Timo wants everyone to speculate like s/he does. That's not something I would recommend, but each to their own.
Can I ask, when did owning your own property became a basic right? Where did this perception come from? What is wrong with renting? Are you insinuating that renting is somehow sub-optimal? When did investing in property automatically became greedy? What assumptions are you making?
There should be a right to choose, at the moment there is not because property infestors have speculated in a market where young Australian families are just trying to put a roof over thier head.
After a bubble has burst, no one denies that it existed. But before it does, the popular refrain is that though bubbles existed elsewhere in the world, “there’s no bubble here”. So housing bubbles are admitted to have existed in Japan, the USA, Spain and Ireland – because they’ve already burst.
There should be a right to choose, at the moment there is not because property infestors have speculated in a market where young Australian families are just trying to put a roof over thier head.
I'm not sure you answered the question - why should they have the right to choose? Roof over their head is a basic need - rental properties/ public housing satisfy that basic need. Choice is a luxury that needs to be earnt.
So what informs this perception of yours - that young Australian families are entitled to this right to own?
A massive house price crash would lead to an economic armaggedeon. At least that is how it seems to have occured in spain, Ireland, the USA, and all the other screwed up economies
Ignore posts by The Whole Truth · View Post · End Ignoring The forum fuckwit goes RRRAAARRRGGHHhhh - But not a fuck was given..................by anyone.
Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.
Forum Rules:
The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.
Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.
Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.
This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.
Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ
Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy