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The mystery of Stockland
Topic Started: 28 Aug 2012, 12:58 PM (9,821 Views)
Count du Monet
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Trojan
30 Aug 2012, 02:56 PM
Costs of subdividing and development has been covered before.
Bulls say it costs alot and bears say it costs very little.

Once again I ask the bears if subdivision and development was so cheap, why don't they try it themselves?
If not for the profit then at least to help the poor Australians (that many profess to care so much about) to get a cheap home.
No, if you failed to notice the Bears can actually point to real costs. Do it on the large scale and it is made very affordable. But if you like, we can raise price. You can do it expensively it you like.
Sure you can do it, if you can find some greenfield that has been approved for development. If you can find anything around Melbourne the Greenfield it will be the equivalent of 100k per houseblock.

As has been pointed out and slips past you every time.

Quote:
 
Quinn gives a glimpse into the developer mindset when he acknowledges that in its current housing projects, Stockland releases lots in line with the local demand. "If we oversupply the local markets what we are going to do is put prices through the floor."

Stockland's largest project in Melbourne is Highlands at Craigieburn. It will eventually produce about 7200 households, or a suburb the size of Traralgon. It is a massive development from which the company strategically releases only about 400 housing lots each year.

If that large land-holding were divided among 10 or 20 smaller developers, all desperate to sell lots and move on, there is little doubt there would be more homes on the market at lower cost.

While governments at all levels are reluctant to openly discuss such matters, the little-read fine print in some of their documents is revealing.

A 2006 State Government report on Melbourne's outer suburban housing supply notes that in the Hume corridor, 87 per cent of zoned residential land is controlled by one major unnamed developer, which in fact is Stockland. "In the short term to medium term, land holdings within Hume are considered insufficient to foster an openly competitive broadhectare land-supply market."
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Joseph
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Count du Monet
30 Aug 2012, 12:02 AM
Must have been a long driveway. :D

The fact is we have statements that confirm what the costs can be.

And note, you have absolutely solid to say.










Oh yes, and there's my wild guesses.

Good to see you and your anonymous band of brothers are in agreement. however us on planet earth have to rely on actual facts. A five minute web search uncovered the following study from the AHURI:

"ALTHOUGH DEVELOPER INFRASTRUCTURE CONTRIBUTIONS REPRESENT THE LARGEST QUANTIFIABLE PLANNING RELATED COST IN AUSTRALIA AVERAGING BETWEEN $45,000 AND $100,000 PER LOT, RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPERS ARE MORE CONCERNED BY NON-FINANCIAL BARRIERS SUCH AS PLANNING SYSTEM COMPLEXITY, UNCERTAIN TIME FRAMES AND UNPREDICTABLE COSTS."

http://www.ahuri.edu.au/publications/download/rap_issue_125

Interesting reading. You may learn something about developers cost. Cheers.
Edited by Joseph, 30 Aug 2012, 05:41 PM.
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Count du Monet
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Quote:
 
BETWEEN $45,000 AND $100,000 PER LOT,


They're saying $72,500 average

There's 2 clauses here.

average

DEVELOPER INFRASTRUCTURE CONTRIBUTIONS

One, is it is saying these are the developer infrastructure contributions........and it is say the infrastructure contributions are between $45,000 and $100,000 per lot.

pure bullocks.

In Victoria the only contribution is the 7or 8k council fees, there are no developer infrastructure contributions.

In NSW the largest developer infrastructure contribution is about $27,000 in an exclusive suburb (Kellyville). Most others are between 10k and 5k.

The pamphlet is from a campaign a few years ago and is quite dishonest.

You'll never see them itemize the costs involved.....because they are lying....pure and bloody simple.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Joseph
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Count du Monet
30 Aug 2012, 06:23 PM


You'll never see them itemize the costs involved.....because they are lying....pure and bloody simple.
Wrong again Count.


Table 4
http://www.ahuri.edu.au/publications/download/70393_fr

The document is quite long and goes into all the requirements for developers. Another good read. But of course an utter fabrication and propaganda truly befitting a KGB agent or some such. ;)
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Count du Monet
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http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&ved=0CFgQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ahuri.edu.au%2Fpublications%2Fdownload%2F70393_fr&ei=uh8_UKjQLsWviQfbwYDgCQ&usg=AFQjCNFCQnSCL7KCvFqGkVtqFnWZJ24bPg&sig2=i9ACMehtJB85R4jXSjw24Q

Here's a version with heaps more detail.......now I'll point out to you how deceptive it is.

Go to page 109....for a development of 1900 lots.

Total compliance costs............300,000........divided by 1900 = $157 per lot.

Planning application fees......475,000..........divided by 1900 = $250 per lot.

Local development contributions...... 13,300,000......divided by 1900 = $7,000 per lot. This one is quite factual and is the local council fee of 7k which is much the same most places.

Now here comes the bullshit.

Regional development contributions....38,000,000......divided by 1900 = $20,000 per lot. You can tell for this one they've deliberately picked one the most exclusive developments in NSW. And on average the NSW contribution is much the same as the council contribution.

Other...............60,800,000...............divided by 1900 = $32,000 pet lot.....other? I'd say pure cobblers......there wasn't a cent involved, this is creative accounting.

Subdivision/construction certificates......85,500,000.....divided by 1900 = $45,000 per lot ...this is quite an expensive development.

Referral fees......9,500,000...............divided by 1900 = $5,000 pet lot. Money given to a mate! :lol

Licenses (eg. utilities, special permits)......6,650,000......divided by 1900 = $3,500 pet lot.

Edited by Count du Monet, 30 Aug 2012, 07:43 PM.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Count du Monet
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Joseph
30 Aug 2012, 07:19 PM
Wrong again Count.


Table 4
http://www.ahuri.edu.au/publications/download/70393_fr

The document is quite long and goes into all the requirements for developers. Another good read. But of course an utter fabrication and propaganda truly befitting a KGB agent or some such. ;)
itemized?

When since does a clause like "other" 32k per lot, get called itemized?
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Count du Monet
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Shadow sockpuppet coming up! :D

Phil the engineer
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Joseph
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Count du Monet
30 Aug 2012, 07:35 PM
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&ved=0CFgQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ahuri.edu.au%2Fpublications%2Fdownload%2F70393_fr&ei=uh8_UKjQLsWviQfbwYDgCQ&usg=AFQjCNFCQnSCL7KCvFqGkVtqFnWZJ24bPg&sig2=i9ACMehtJB85R4jXSjw24Q

Here's a version with heaps more detail.......now I'll point out to you how deceptive it is.

Go to page 109....for a development of 1900 lots.

Total compliance costs............300,000........divided by 1900 = $157 per lot.

Planning application fees......475,000..........divided by 1900 = $250 per lot.

Local development contributions...... 13,300,000......divided by 1900 = $7,000 per lot. This one is quite factual and is the local council fee of 7k which is much the same most places.

Now here comes the bullshit.

Regional development contributions....38,000,000......divided by 1900 = $20,000 per lot. You can tell for this one they've deliberately picked one the most exclusive developments in NSW. And on average the NSW contribution is much the same as the council contribution.

Other...............60,800,000...............divided by 1900 = $32,000 pet lot.....other? I'd say pure cobblers......there wasn't a cent involved, this is creative accounting.

Subdivision/construction certificates......85,500,000.....divided by 1900 = $45,000 per lot ...this is quite an expensive development.

Referral fees......9,500,000...............divided by 1900 = $5,000 pet lot. Money given to a mate! :lol

Licenses (eg. utilities, special permits)......6,650,000......divided by 1900 = $3,500 pet lot.

Aha! So you concede that development costs exceed 25k per block somewhere in Australia. Thanks for playing count!
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Count du Monet
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Joseph
30 Aug 2012, 07:54 PM
Aha! So you concede that development costs exceed 25k per block somewhere in Australia. Thanks for playing count!
I might guess is you're a Shadow sockpuppet as well from the way you behave .

But that's a plain silly statement........that's like saying a Rolls Royce is an average car.

Like Shadow's here, he's picked Kellyville. But his accounting is ridiculous at a glance.

Posted Image
Edited by Count du Monet, 30 Aug 2012, 08:10 PM.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!!
You are no longer customer, you are property!!!

Don't be SAUCY with me Bernaisse
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Joseph
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Count du Monet
30 Aug 2012, 08:01 PM
I might guess is you're a Shadow sockpuppet as well from the way you behave .

But that's a plain silly statement........that's like saying a Rolls Royce is an average car.

Like Shadow's here, he's picked Kellyville. But his accounting is ridiculous at a glance.

Posted Image
Still smart enough to know what you write is utter garbage.

I state that your figure is wrong. You say you have some consensus with a bunch of anonyms.
I produce proof your figure is wrong via the ahuri. You state the figures are fudged and "no way would they actually table the costs"
I produce the table of the costs. And you state the numbers are fudged, forgeries or from "the most expensive development in the country"
I could produce invoices and you would still say its some kind of forgeries.

Christ count go put your tin foil hat back on.
Edited by Joseph, 30 Aug 2012, 08:35 PM.
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