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Australia's alliance with USA questioned by China
Topic Started: 16 May 2012, 10:50 AM (1,829 Views)
audas
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peter fraser
18 May 2012, 02:57 PM

Seriously we just ain't a military power of any size unless our opponent is Fiji or Tonga. Who cares if the planes are good or bad, we don't have enough of them to be a threat.
No but by positioning American troops and battle ships on bases in Australia makes us a direct target during a clash between the USA and China - so why not stay the FUCK out of the situation by not siding with the USA due to old alliances which clearly do not benefit us, and only benefit the united states.

The only reason the USA is putting the base in Darwin is because it is beyond the range of the Chinese anti-carrier ballistic weapons, but is of course within range of their ICBM war heads.

Here are the ranges of their various missiles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PLA_ballistic_missiles_range.jpg

Notice the one skimming northern Australia - this is the missile range the US is concerned about as it is the most powerful anti-super carrier missile.


While the US put its energies into developing force projection as they are a highly aggressive nation ho do a lot of invading, Russia and China who are not so expansive and aggressive merely needed to counter these ships with missiles capable of taking them out - Russia has a long history of out performing the US in technology, and their missile systems are the best there is - hence US aircraft carriers are useless against China and Russia.

The real battle comes down to Sub etc - which is why China demonstrated their capabilities by sending one of their subs directly off the coast of California and firing a ballistic missile over the state in a direct display of capability - China has been building an awful lot of Subs - its their thing.

Hope that makes sense - siding with the US when you live in Asia is a fucking stupid thing to do - especially when China has always been non aggressive, Non expansionist and poses no real threat beyond the wide eyed rantings of paranoid McCarthiests who are screaming about REDS UNDER THE BED
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audas
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NotFooled
18 May 2012, 03:00 PM
If you posted your silly rant to a real military forum you'd be shot down faster than an Iraqi MiG in a no-fly zone.
My Silly rant comes from a specialist in the military you absolute knob, watch the video and get a spoon for your humble pie,.

My position is not about military - its an International Relations and a Theoretical Political analysis - both of which I have masters degrees - tosser.
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peter fraser
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audas
18 May 2012, 03:10 PM
peter fraser
18 May 2012, 02:57 PM

Seriously we just ain't a military power of any size unless our opponent is Fiji or Tonga. Who cares if the planes are good or bad, we don't have enough of them to be a threat.
No but by positioning American troops and battle ships on bases in Australia makes us a direct target during a clash between the USA and China - so why not stay the FUCK out of the situation by not siding with the USA due to old alliances which clearly do not benefit us, and only benefit the united states.

The only reason the USA is putting the base in Darwin is because it is beyond the range of the Chinese anti-carrier ballistic weapons, but is of course within range of their ICBM war heads.

Here are the ranges of their various missiles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PLA_ballistic_missiles_range.jpg

Notice the one skimming northern Australia - this is the missile range the US is concerned about as it is the most powerful anti-super carrier missile.


While the US put its energies into developing force projection as they are a highly aggressive nation ho do a lot of invading, Russia and China who are not so expansive and aggressive merely needed to counter these ships with missiles capable of taking them out - Russia has a long history of out performing the US in technology, and their missile systems are the best there is - hence US aircraft carriers are useless against China and Russia.

The real battle comes down to Sub etc - which is why China demonstrated their capabilities by sending one of their subs directly off the coast of California and firing a ballistic missile over the state in a direct display of capability - China has been building an awful lot of Subs - its their thing.

Hope that makes sense - siding with the US when you live in Asia is a fucking stupid thing to do - especially when China has always been non aggressive, Non expansionist and poses no real threat beyond the wide eyed rantings of paranoid McCarthiests who are screaming about REDS UNDER THE BED
WE have a pact with the USA that we are obliged to honour. Frankly I would rather them have an interest in us than not, because we are defenseless without them.

Heads or tails.

Either way it is a gamble, should we be defenseless, or by relying on the USA possibly become a target. I don't see why China would get aggressive unless they were pushed. They don't have many sizeable allies, and they will end up owning half of the USA if they choose to.

1st rule of military combat is don't start a fight that you are not sure of winning.


Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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miw
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audas
18 May 2012, 02:47 PM

Compared to Chinas Agression:

0
Well, I can think of Korea in the 1950s and Vietnam in 1988, India 1962 not to mention that they invaded and annexed Tibet and Xinjiang.

The reality is that from about 1800 to 1949 China could not challenge anyone militarily, and before 1800 except for short periods they were fully occupied either fighting each other or trying to hold the empire together.

They did try to invade Japn in 1247.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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Mike
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audas
18 May 2012, 03:12 PM
NotFooled
18 May 2012, 03:00 PM
If you posted your silly rant to a real military forum you'd be shot down faster than an Iraqi MiG in a no-fly zone.
My Silly rant comes from a specialist in the military you absolute knob, watch the video and get a spoon for your humble pie,.

My position is not about military - its an International Relations and a Theoretical Political analysis - both of which I have masters degrees - tosser.
I highly doubt you have a degree in anything by the way you talk on this forum. All you are spouting is Anti American BS.

I never said China did not have a stealth fighter, I clearly stated they have a prototype which is called the J-20. Funny how your a so called expert but can hardly name a fighter or bomber. I think you are an expert in nothing.

It is also unconfirmed if the J-20 will be a fighter bomber, interceptor or air superiority fighter. It is to large to match it with the F-22 in the air superioty role. It is far more likely this is a a form of stealthy fighter bomber designed to carry long range anti ship missiles and remain undetected.

You seem to be so one sided in your posts, Russia strong, China strong BS. They both stole US technology to try and keep up and they are still decades behind. You do realise the F-22 first started to be developed in the late 1970s as the ATF program. If China and Russia are now only just getting prototypes into the air, they are 15-20 years behind at least. Plus the aircraft prototypes they do have which includes the J-20 are not match for the current F-22 and F-35. Perhaps in 5-10 years it will be different but not today.

Try to limit your personal attacks, people only do that once you lost the debate.
http://mike-globaleconomy.blogspot.com.au/
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Mike
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miw
18 May 2012, 02:19 PM
Good post.

Within the next 5 years we will have Chinese warships stationed off the NW coast of Western Australia. This is not necessarily a threatening thing. They have vital interests at stake, since they need to protect their supply lines to the Middle East, and if the straits of Malacca get closed for any reason, then they need to protect the Lombok and (?) Makasser straits. Australia will need to respect their right and legitimate need to do so, but also ready to counter any threat this might pose in the future.

Australia joining any kind of strategic alliance with China would alienate every single country in Asia except China and North Korea. China has 14 neighbours and no friends except North Korea which could be more accurately described as a vassal state. Anyhow, as far as I am concerned it would be unthinkable while they are still governed by what is for all intents and purposes an organised crime syndicate.

I love China and the Chinese. I've lived here for 14 years and I really wish them the best and hope the inevitable political restructuring which will be forced by the people of China goes smoothly for all concerned. So far the signs are encouraging. But the concept of a strategic alliance right now fails on economic, strategic, moral and ethical grounds.
Spot on.

China will expand its Navy in the direction of Malacca straights and Indian oceans. It needs to protect its supply line of oil from the middle east which will only increase year by year.

China cannot fight a large war against either India or the US, even Japan at present. It cannot protect its supply of oil which is mostly imported. Without huge amounts of oil the Chinese economy will come to a halt. Let alone protect its shipping lanes for its exports and imports of nearly every kind of resource.

All the US or India for that matter need to do to defeat China is park a few subs around the Persian gulf and sink every oil tanker heading to China. Game over China loses with in weeks. This is why China is working hard to build an over land supply route and get ports in Pakistan. This still does not stop sub sinking oil tankers, or a air strike on a pipe line. China is most vulnerable large nation in the world to an energy shock to oil or gas.

As long as the US Navy rules the seas which it will for along time to come, as Chinese naval construction has actualy decreased the last few years. The US Navy in pure tonage and firepower afloat is equal to the next 10 largest navies combined. In fact the US navy could take on the combined might of the worlds navies and win hand down. There is no threat to US command of the seas. As you stated how can China win any way when it is surrounded on all sides by potential enemies. It cannot mass it forces enough to defeat a large power like the US. China is like Germany, it needs short sharp wars designed to avhieve limited outcomes and goals. The DF-21 missile is designed to keep US carrier fleets away long enough for China to win a local war on its terms prior to the US massing enough forces to kickin its front door and bring the war to chinese soil.

http://mike-globaleconomy.blogspot.com.au/
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audas
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Mike
18 May 2012, 04:22 PM
I highly doubt you have a degree in anything by the way you talk on this forum. All you are spouting is Anti American BS.

I never said China did not have a stealth fighter, I clearly stated they have a prototype which is called the J-20. Funny how your a so called expert but can hardly name a fighter or bomber. I think you are an expert in nothing.

It is also unconfirmed if the J-20 will be a fighter bomber, interceptor or air superiority fighter. It is to large to match it with the F-22 in the air superioty role. It is far more likely this is a a form of stealthy fighter bomber designed to carry long range anti ship missiles and remain undetected.

You seem to be so one sided in your posts, Russia strong, China strong BS. They both stole US technology to try and keep up and they are still decades behind. You do realise the F-22 first started to be developed in the late 1970s as the ATF program. If China and Russia are now only just getting prototypes into the air, they are 15-20 years behind at least. Plus the aircraft prototypes they do have which includes the J-20 are not match for the current F-22 and F-35. Perhaps in 5-10 years it will be different but not today.

Try to limit your personal attacks, people only do that once you lost the debate.
Meh - say want you want - you just got demolished.
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NotFooled
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The Bear Whisperer

audas
18 May 2012, 06:36 PM
Meh - say want you want - you just got demolished.
Not according to everyone else in the thread. Mike pwned you so hard that you'll be walking funny for a week.

Posted Image

Then you such a nob that you tried again and Mike took it to the next epic level. Epic pwnage.

Posted Image
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