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Australia's alliance with USA questioned by China
Topic Started: 16 May 2012, 10:50 AM (1,831 Views)
audas
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Joseph
16 May 2012, 11:50 AM
The US is militarily superior to every country in the world.

Nearly ALL of Australia's military equipment is US military of the shelf.

The US has tight export control over these technologies. Banning countries such as China access to said technologies.

How is anything you say practically achievable?
Do you just say shit because you think "yeah that sounds about right"...seriously do you ? Because you're talking shit.

The us is the largest arms exporter on earth - here's a shocker - some of their production is manufactured in China - wow hey.

I did part of Masters thesis on privatization of the US military - and the outsourcing of tech is a real issue.

The Americans sell their weaponry to everyone they can - they have bans on sales of high end stuff like the F22, F35 which Australia ordered.
However it turns out that in a joint military exercise the Russian made Sukhoi destroyed the US craft to the point where it was described as shooting fish in a barrel
and the American planes were as less than useless as most of them were shot out of the sky in under an hour - the Chinese have designed their stealth fighter bombers on the Russian tech.

The upshot of this is the Russian / Chinese tech cost about a fifth of the American stuff - AND WORKS.

The American tech outside of this is next to useless compared to Russian anti aircraft, anti missile missile systems.

The only stuff of any interest realistically is their space weapons, and even then China has been leading the US in anti satellite technology.



The Us military also recently worked out that the CPU's in much of their equipment had been manufactured in China - and yes were full of security holes - just incredible stuff.


So what should Australia do ?

China is not asking us to bow down and kneel at their feet, nor are they asking us to side with them against the US - they are merely asking us not to side AGAINST the Chinese - pretty reasonable request given the situation.


Australia should have denied the US the military base in the NT - OR - offered the same to the Chinese as a gesture. That simple. We should aim to present ourselves as a player to the world stage and be the independent arbiter of the southern hemisphere projecting us into an immensely powerful regional player.

We should declare ourselves independent and state that our position is regional stability and an equal playing field for all business and interested parties who are abiding by international treaties with no preference given to any nation.

As part of that independence we should request funding from all nations requesting to use the waters in the south east Asia as a neutral player Independent of China, Indonesia or the USA.

Our historical position would play against us, however our recent development and stability would be a huge factor in our favor.

Positioning ourselves against China is fucking retarded move beyond all imagination - we are in the middle of Asia, with billions of Asians all around us - the second world war demonstrated that when push comes to shove no one is going to come to our assistance - definitely NOT the USA.

If there is one thing Australia needs to guarantee our safety it is independence and NOT aligning ourselves with the most aggressive military nation on earth when they are stirring for a war, hot or cold, with our most important regional and economic partner = ITS FUCKING RETARDED.
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Joseph
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audas
18 May 2012, 12:11 PM
Do you just say shit because you think "yeah that sounds about right"...seriously do you ? Because you're talking shit.

The us is the largest arms exporter on earth - here's a shocker - some of their production is manufactured in China - wow hey.

I did part of Masters thesis on privatization of the US military - and the outsourcing of tech is a real issue.

The Americans sell their weaponry to everyone they can - they have bans on sales of high end stuff like the F22, F35 which Australia ordered.
However it turns out that in a joint military exercise the Russian made Sukhoi destroyed the US craft to the point where it was described as shooting fish in a barrel
and the American planes were as less than useless as most of them were shot out of the sky in under an hour - the Chinese have designed their stealth fighter bombers on the Russian tech.

The upshot of this is the Russian / Chinese tech cost about a fifth of the American stuff - AND WORKS.

The American tech outside of this is next to useless compared to Russian anti aircraft, anti missile missile systems.

The only stuff of any interest realistically is their space weapons, and even then China has been leading the US in anti satellite technology.



The Us military also recently worked out that the CPU's in much of their equipment had been manufactured in China - and yes were full of security holes - just incredible stuff.


So what should Australia do ?

China is not asking us to bow down and kneel at their feet, nor are they asking us to side with them against the US - they are merely asking us not to side AGAINST the Chinese - pretty reasonable request given the situation.


Australia should have denied the US the military base in the NT - OR - offered the same to the Chinese as a gesture. That simple. We should aim to present ourselves as a player to the world stage and be the independent arbiter of the southern hemisphere projecting us into an immensely powerful regional player.

We should declare ourselves independent and state that our position is regional stability and an equal playing field for all business and interested parties who are abiding by international treaties with no preference given to any nation.

As part of that independence we should request funding from all nations requesting to use the waters in the south east Asia as a neutral player Independent of China, Indonesia or the USA.

Our historical position would play against us, however our recent development and stability would be a huge factor in our favor.

Positioning ourselves against China is fucking retarded move beyond all imagination - we are in the middle of Asia, with billions of Asians all around us - the second world war demonstrated that when push comes to shove no one is going to come to our assistance - definitely NOT the USA.

If there is one thing Australia needs to guarantee our safety it is independence and NOT aligning ourselves with the most aggressive military nation on earth when they are stirring for a war, hot or cold, with our most important regional and economic partner = ITS FUCKING RETARDED.
You're A DICKHEAD.

Half of Aus Military equipment is Export controlled.

If Aus were to go into an alliance with China we would have to give this equipment back to the US "FACT"

The Aus-US Alliance was formed decades ago. US Defence contractors are integrated into every level of our defence procurement and design "FACT"

You have no fucking Idea because all your knowledge is derived from some fucking text book "FACT"
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themoops
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audas
18 May 2012, 12:11 PM
the second world war demonstrated that when push comes to shove no one is going to come to our assistance - definitely NOT the USA.
They eventually did after they got attacked. But back then they were a lot more insular and weren't anywhere near as interested in running the world and didn't have such a massive military ready in place as they do now.

I don't think there'll ever be a WW3, every country's young population has too much contempt for their government and their rich and sees through them without even really having to know what is really going on.
stinkbug omosessuale


Frank Castle is a liar and a criminal. He will often deliberately take people out of context and use straw man arguments.
Frank finally and unintentionally gives it up and admits he got where he is, primarily via dumb luck!
See here
Property will be 50-70% off by 2016.
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Mike
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audas
18 May 2012, 12:11 PM
Do you just say shit because you think "yeah that sounds about right"...seriously do you ? Because you're talking shit.

The us is the largest arms exporter on earth - here's a shocker - some of their production is manufactured in China - wow hey.

I did part of Masters thesis on privatization of the US military - and the outsourcing of tech is a real issue.

The Americans sell their weaponry to everyone they can - they have bans on sales of high end stuff like the F22, F35 which Australia ordered.
However it turns out that in a joint military exercise the Russian made Sukhoi destroyed the US craft to the point where it was described as shooting fish in a barrel
and the American planes were as less than useless as most of them were shot out of the sky in under an hour - the Chinese have designed their stealth fighter bombers on the Russian tech.

The upshot of this is the Russian / Chinese tech cost about a fifth of the American stuff - AND WORKS.

The American tech outside of this is next to useless compared to Russian anti aircraft, anti missile missile systems.

The only stuff of any interest realistically is their space weapons, and even then China has been leading the US in anti satellite technology.



The Us military also recently worked out that the CPU's in much of their equipment had been manufactured in China - and yes were full of security holes - just incredible stuff.


So what should Australia do ?

China is not asking us to bow down and kneel at their feet, nor are they asking us to side with them against the US - they are merely asking us not to side AGAINST the Chinese - pretty reasonable request given the situation.


Australia should have denied the US the military base in the NT - OR - offered the same to the Chinese as a gesture. That simple. We should aim to present ourselves as a player to the world stage and be the independent arbiter of the southern hemisphere projecting us into an immensely powerful regional player.

We should declare ourselves independent and state that our position is regional stability and an equal playing field for all business and interested parties who are abiding by international treaties with no preference given to any nation.

As part of that independence we should request funding from all nations requesting to use the waters in the south east Asia as a neutral player Independent of China, Indonesia or the USA.

Our historical position would play against us, however our recent development and stability would be a huge factor in our favor.

Positioning ourselves against China is fucking retarded move beyond all imagination - we are in the middle of Asia, with billions of Asians all around us - the second world war demonstrated that when push comes to shove no one is going to come to our assistance - definitely NOT the USA.

If there is one thing Australia needs to guarantee our safety it is independence and NOT aligning ourselves with the most aggressive military nation on earth when they are stirring for a war, hot or cold, with our most important regional and economic partner = ITS FUCKING RETARDED.
What a pile of crap. Typical of left leaning uni grad, all Anti American BS.
Please provide proof of your claim the F-22 or F-35 can be defeated by Russian planes. The only war games held against india which was at Cope Thunder pitted F-15s against Indian Migs and Sukhoi fighters. The US F-15s had to fight at a 4-1 disadvantage, not use their superior radars or beyond visual range missiles or E-3 sentry radar control. The war games pitted the best India had against 1980s US technology. In actual combat situations no F-15 has ever been shot down and has a kill ration of 164-0 confirmed combat kills.
The US F-22 in wargames vs F-15s, F-16s and Russian Migs & Sukhois (yes the US operates Russian planes to test them against) Red Flag wargames which had Indian Su-30s, French Rafael, South Korean F-15, British Tornado & Euro Fighter as well as US F-15 & F-16s. 12 US F-22s killed 108 Enemy aircraft for the loss of none of their own. Over the duration of the wargames 241 enemy aircraft were downed for the loss of 2 Allied planes, of which only 1 was an F-22 and it happened as the F-22 had just shot it down, the downed aircraft left the area, regenerated an immediately engaged the F-22 from behind and below at close range. Technically a kill for the war game but would never have happened in a real shooting war.
The F-35 uses more advanced technology then the F-22 but is not designed as a pure air-superiority fighter, that is the job of the F-22. Same as the F-16 today is not designed to take on the best the enemy has, that is the F-15s role. The F-35 relies on stealth and sensor fusion which is far more advanced than anything else out there. The F-35 over the next few years will entre mass production and in a decade from now the US will field well over a thousand of these planes give them a huge strategic advantage in any war. Neither Russia nor China has a stealth aircraft in production or service, both only have prototypes such as the Pak-Fa, Mig-35 or J-20 none of these are a match for the F-22. The F-22 is in service and has been for the last 8 years, its ready to fight, except it has no one to fight as it outclasses everything by a huge margin. Hence why the US stoped production at 180 copies. The US is already in development of its 6th Generation fighters and UCAVs, no point building more F-22s when no one else will have a plan to challenge you for the next 10-15 years if not longer, by that time the US will have its UCAVs and 6th Gen fighters well under way.
Australia will never bow down to China regardless of the economic consequences until China changes its political landscape, and nor should we. We can do business with them, sell them products and services. Much like Britain and Germany did business prior to World War I & II, they were each other’s largest trading partners prior to war, that did not stop World wars from happening as security, national interest outweigh short term economic gains. The talk about the US and China never going to war due to each other’s economic dependence is short sighted and wrong. If either nation views a situation or event in the national interest it will act, regardless of the economic fallout.
Australia to keep is independence must keep its Alliance with the US, and we will do so. If we do not we are accepting Chinese dominance of this region and that can never be allowed to happen. We need a strong US presence to balance China so it is not tempted to expand its ambitions. The present South China Sea dispute is a good example. China claims oceans which reach as far as 2000km from its coast line, despite other nations having a much stronger claim and much closer. China refuses to negotiate these claims at an international level to reach a fair agreement to all. It prefers to bully individual nations into accepting its claims. China is also disputing freedom of navigation through oceans close to its coast line despite this being international law. One Chinas presents actions we can only assume China intends to rewrite the laws to suit its agenda. This cannot be allowed.
Australia should in fact massively increase its Alliance with the US, allow a US Carrier Battle group to be based in Western Australia for easy access to the Indian ocean and South China Sea, to far for Chinese missiles to hit them. US nuclear subs can be based in WA as well just like in WWII and operate against the PLA Navy.
Australia should buy 12 Virgina class nuclear attack submarines and not build our own son of Collins subs in south Australia. We could buy these far more capable subs that are in production now for around $24 billion, instead of spending $36 billion on our own designed and built subs which will be inferior in both range and weapons. We need to get over our fear or nuclear powered warships. The Virgina subs are being built in the US ahead of time and under budget, and are a huge capability increase on our present subs. 12 of these Subs would make an attack on Australia impossible and give us the ability to fight much larger navies far from home.
These are just a few points, I could talk for months on this issue.
http://mike-globaleconomy.blogspot.com.au/
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Joseph
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Mike
18 May 2012, 01:22 PM
What a pile of crap. Typical of left leaning uni grad, all Anti American BS.
Please provide proof of your claim the F-22 or F-35 can be defeated by Russian planes. The only war games held against india which was at Cope Thunder pitted F-15s against Indian Migs and Sukhoi fighters. The US F-15s had to fight at a 4-1 disadvantage, not use their superior radars or beyond visual range missiles or E-3 sentry radar control. The war games pitted the best India had against 1980s US technology. In actual combat situations no F-15 has ever been shot down and has a kill ration of 164-0 confirmed combat kills.
The US F-22 in wargames vs F-15s, F-16s and Russian Migs & Sukhois (yes the US operates Russian planes to test them against) Red Flag wargames which had Indian Su-30s, French Rafael, South Korean F-15, British Tornado & Euro Fighter as well as US F-15 & F-16s. 12 US F-22s killed 108 Enemy aircraft for the loss of none of their own. Over the duration of the wargames 241 enemy aircraft were downed for the loss of 2 Allied planes, of which only 1 was an F-22 and it happened as the F-22 had just shot it down, the downed aircraft left the area, regenerated an immediately engaged the F-22 from behind and below at close range. Technically a kill for the war game but would never have happened in a real shooting war.
The F-35 uses more advanced technology then the F-22 but is not designed as a pure air-superiority fighter, that is the job of the F-22. Same as the F-16 today is not designed to take on the best the enemy has, that is the F-15s role. The F-35 relies on stealth and sensor fusion which is far more advanced than anything else out there. The F-35 over the next few years will entre mass production and in a decade from now the US will field well over a thousand of these planes give them a huge strategic advantage in any war. Neither Russia nor China has a stealth aircraft in production or service, both only have prototypes such as the Pak-Fa, Mig-35 or J-20 none of these are a match for the F-22. The F-22 is in service and has been for the last 8 years, its ready to fight, except it has no one to fight as it outclasses everything by a huge margin. Hence why the US stoped production at 180 copies. The US is already in development of its 6th Generation fighters and UCAVs, no point building more F-22s when no one else will have a plan to challenge you for the next 10-15 years if not longer, by that time the US will have its UCAVs and 6th Gen fighters well under way.
Australia will never bow down to China regardless of the economic consequences until China changes its political landscape, and nor should we. We can do business with them, sell them products and services. Much like Britain and Germany did business prior to World War I & II, they were each other’s largest trading partners prior to war, that did not stop World wars from happening as security, national interest outweigh short term economic gains. The talk about the US and China never going to war due to each other’s economic dependence is short sighted and wrong. If either nation views a situation or event in the national interest it will act, regardless of the economic fallout.
Australia to keep is independence must keep its Alliance with the US, and we will do so. If we do not we are accepting Chinese dominance of this region and that can never be allowed to happen. We need a strong US presence to balance China so it is not tempted to expand its ambitions. The present South China Sea dispute is a good example. China claims oceans which reach as far as 2000km from its coast line, despite other nations having a much stronger claim and much closer. China refuses to negotiate these claims at an international level to reach a fair agreement to all. It prefers to bully individual nations into accepting its claims. China is also disputing freedom of navigation through oceans close to its coast line despite this being international law. One Chinas presents actions we can only assume China intends to rewrite the laws to suit its agenda. This cannot be allowed.
Australia should in fact massively increase its Alliance with the US, allow a US Carrier Battle group to be based in Western Australia for easy access to the Indian ocean and South China Sea, to far for Chinese missiles to hit them. US nuclear subs can be based in WA as well just like in WWII and operate against the PLA Navy.
Australia should buy 12 Virgina class nuclear attack submarines and not build our own son of Collins subs in south Australia. We could buy these far more capable subs that are in production now for around $24 billion, instead of spending $36 billion on our own designed and built subs which will be inferior in both range and weapons. We need to get over our fear or nuclear powered warships. The Virgina subs are being built in the US ahead of time and under budget, and are a huge capability increase on our present subs. 12 of these Subs would make an attack on Australia impossible and give us the ability to fight much larger navies far from home.
These are just a few points, I could talk for months on this issue.
Well done Mike. Great post.
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NotFooled
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Joseph
18 May 2012, 01:57 PM
Well done Mike. Great post.
Seconded.

I vote Mike for PM!
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miw
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Mike
18 May 2012, 01:22 PM
What a pile of crap. Typical of left leaning uni grad, all Anti American BS.
Please provide proof of your claim the F-22 or F-35 can be defeated by Russian planes. The only war games held against india which was at Cope Thunder pitted F-15s against Indian Migs and Sukhoi fighters. The US F-15s had to fight at a 4-1 disadvantage, not use their superior radars or beyond visual range missiles or E-3 sentry radar control. The war games pitted the best India had against 1980s US technology. In actual combat situations no F-15 has ever been shot down and has a kill ration of 164-0 confirmed combat kills.
The US F-22 in wargames vs F-15s, F-16s and Russian Migs & Sukhois (yes the US operates Russian planes to test them against) Red Flag wargames which had Indian Su-30s, French Rafael, South Korean F-15, British Tornado & Euro Fighter as well as US F-15 & F-16s. 12 US F-22s killed 108 Enemy aircraft for the loss of none of their own. Over the duration of the wargames 241 enemy aircraft were downed for the loss of 2 Allied planes, of which only 1 was an F-22 and it happened as the F-22 had just shot it down, the downed aircraft left the area, regenerated an immediately engaged the F-22 from behind and below at close range. Technically a kill for the war game but would never have happened in a real shooting war.
The F-35 uses more advanced technology then the F-22 but is not designed as a pure air-superiority fighter, that is the job of the F-22. Same as the F-16 today is not designed to take on the best the enemy has, that is the F-15s role. The F-35 relies on stealth and sensor fusion which is far more advanced than anything else out there. The F-35 over the next few years will entre mass production and in a decade from now the US will field well over a thousand of these planes give them a huge strategic advantage in any war. Neither Russia nor China has a stealth aircraft in production or service, both only have prototypes such as the Pak-Fa, Mig-35 or J-20 none of these are a match for the F-22. The F-22 is in service and has been for the last 8 years, its ready to fight, except it has no one to fight as it outclasses everything by a huge margin. Hence why the US stoped production at 180 copies. The US is already in development of its 6th Generation fighters and UCAVs, no point building more F-22s when no one else will have a plan to challenge you for the next 10-15 years if not longer, by that time the US will have its UCAVs and 6th Gen fighters well under way.
Australia will never bow down to China regardless of the economic consequences until China changes its political landscape, and nor should we. We can do business with them, sell them products and services. Much like Britain and Germany did business prior to World War I & II, they were each other’s largest trading partners prior to war, that did not stop World wars from happening as security, national interest outweigh short term economic gains. The talk about the US and China never going to war due to each other’s economic dependence is short sighted and wrong. If either nation views a situation or event in the national interest it will act, regardless of the economic fallout.
Australia to keep is independence must keep its Alliance with the US, and we will do so. If we do not we are accepting Chinese dominance of this region and that can never be allowed to happen. We need a strong US presence to balance China so it is not tempted to expand its ambitions. The present South China Sea dispute is a good example. China claims oceans which reach as far as 2000km from its coast line, despite other nations having a much stronger claim and much closer. China refuses to negotiate these claims at an international level to reach a fair agreement to all. It prefers to bully individual nations into accepting its claims. China is also disputing freedom of navigation through oceans close to its coast line despite this being international law. One Chinas presents actions we can only assume China intends to rewrite the laws to suit its agenda. This cannot be allowed.
Australia should in fact massively increase its Alliance with the US, allow a US Carrier Battle group to be based in Western Australia for easy access to the Indian ocean and South China Sea, to far for Chinese missiles to hit them. US nuclear subs can be based in WA as well just like in WWII and operate against the PLA Navy.
Australia should buy 12 Virgina class nuclear attack submarines and not build our own son of Collins subs in south Australia. We could buy these far more capable subs that are in production now for around $24 billion, instead of spending $36 billion on our own designed and built subs which will be inferior in both range and weapons. We need to get over our fear or nuclear powered warships. The Virgina subs are being built in the US ahead of time and under budget, and are a huge capability increase on our present subs. 12 of these Subs would make an attack on Australia impossible and give us the ability to fight much larger navies far from home.
These are just a few points, I could talk for months on this issue.
Good post.

Within the next 5 years we will have Chinese warships stationed off the NW coast of Western Australia. This is not necessarily a threatening thing. They have vital interests at stake, since they need to protect their supply lines to the Middle East, and if the straits of Malacca get closed for any reason, then they need to protect the Lombok and (?) Makasser straits. Australia will need to respect their right and legitimate need to do so, but also ready to counter any threat this might pose in the future.

Australia joining any kind of strategic alliance with China would alienate every single country in Asia except China and North Korea. China has 14 neighbours and no friends except North Korea which could be more accurately described as a vassal state. Anyhow, as far as I am concerned it would be unthinkable while they are still governed by what is for all intents and purposes an organised crime syndicate.

I love China and the Chinese. I've lived here for 14 years and I really wish them the best and hope the inevitable political restructuring which will be forced by the people of China goes smoothly for all concerned. So far the signs are encouraging. But the concept of a strategic alliance right now fails on economic, strategic, moral and ethical grounds.
Edited by miw, 18 May 2012, 02:21 PM.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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audas
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Mike
18 May 2012, 01:22 PM
What a pile of crap. Typical of left leaning uni grad, all Anti American BS.
Please provide proof of your claim the F-22 or F-35 can be defeated by Russian planes. The only war games held against india which was at Cope Thunder pitted F-15s against Indian Migs and Sukhoi fighters. The US F-15s had to fight at a 4-1 disadvantage, not use their superior radars or beyond visual range missiles or E-3 sentry radar control. The war games pitted the best India had against 1980s US technology. In actual combat situations no F-15 has ever been shot down and has a kill ration of 164-0 confirmed combat kills.
The US F-22 in wargames vs F-15s, F-16s and Russian Migs & Sukhois (yes the US operates Russian planes to test them against) Red Flag wargames which had Indian Su-30s, French Rafael, South Korean F-15, British Tornado & Euro Fighter as well as US F-15 & F-16s. 12 US F-22s killed 108 Enemy aircraft for the loss of none of their own. Over the duration of the wargames 241 enemy aircraft were downed for the loss of 2 Allied planes, of which only 1 was an F-22 and it happened as the F-22 had just shot it down, the downed aircraft left the area, regenerated an immediately engaged the F-22 from behind and below at close range. Technically a kill for the war game but would never have happened in a real shooting war.
The F-35 uses more advanced technology then the F-22 but is not designed as a pure air-superiority fighter, that is the job of the F-22. Same as the F-16 today is not designed to take on the best the enemy has, that is the F-15s role. The F-35 relies on stealth and sensor fusion which is far more advanced than anything else out there. The F-35 over the next few years will entre mass production and in a decade from now the US will field well over a thousand of these planes give them a huge strategic advantage in any war. Neither Russia nor China has a stealth aircraft in production or service, both only have prototypes such as the Pak-Fa, Mig-35 or J-20 none of these are a match for the F-22. The F-22 is in service and has been for the last 8 years, its ready to fight, except it has no one to fight as it outclasses everything by a huge margin. Hence why the US stoped production at 180 copies. The US is already in development of its 6th Generation fighters and UCAVs, no point building more F-22s when no one else will have a plan to challenge you for the next 10-15 years if not longer, by that time the US will have its UCAVs and 6th Gen fighters well under way.
Australia will never bow down to China regardless of the economic consequences until China changes its political landscape, and nor should we. We can do business with them, sell them products and services. Much like Britain and Germany did business prior to World War I & II, they were each other’s largest trading partners prior to war, that did not stop World wars from happening as security, national interest outweigh short term economic gains. The talk about the US and China never going to war due to each other’s economic dependence is short sighted and wrong. If either nation views a situation or event in the national interest it will act, regardless of the economic fallout.
Australia to keep is independence must keep its Alliance with the US, and we will do so. If we do not we are accepting Chinese dominance of this region and that can never be allowed to happen. We need a strong US presence to balance China so it is not tempted to expand its ambitions. The present South China Sea dispute is a good example. China claims oceans which reach as far as 2000km from its coast line, despite other nations having a much stronger claim and much closer. China refuses to negotiate these claims at an international level to reach a fair agreement to all. It prefers to bully individual nations into accepting its claims. China is also disputing freedom of navigation through oceans close to its coast line despite this being international law. One Chinas presents actions we can only assume China intends to rewrite the laws to suit its agenda. This cannot be allowed.
Australia should in fact massively increase its Alliance with the US, allow a US Carrier Battle group to be based in Western Australia for easy access to the Indian ocean and South China Sea, to far for Chinese missiles to hit them. US nuclear subs can be based in WA as well just like in WWII and operate against the PLA Navy.
Australia should buy 12 Virgina class nuclear attack submarines and not build our own son of Collins subs in south Australia. We could buy these far more capable subs that are in production now for around $24 billion, instead of spending $36 billion on our own designed and built subs which will be inferior in both range and weapons. We need to get over our fear or nuclear powered warships. The Virgina subs are being built in the US ahead of time and under budget, and are a huge capability increase on our present subs. 12 of these Subs would make an attack on Australia impossible and give us the ability to fight much larger navies far from home.
These are just a few points, I could talk for months on this issue.
Hey mike - thanks for another ridiculous post - which can be utterly shot down, you along with it in one single link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M&feature=related

Oh, God, that was good - you absolute moron, well, guess you look like a retarded monkey now don't you.


Blah blah blah china doesn't have stealth blah blah

http://defensetech.org/2012/03/10/awesome-new-pics-of-chinas-stealth-fighter/

Then you have some rant about China, yet America has invaded over half a dozen countries in south east asia directly and more covertly, assisting in the killing of tens of thousands in Indonesia, while China has never invaded anyone in the region.....oops.

So lets see American aggression towards other nations:

ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected.
CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels.
HAITI 1891 Troops Black revolt on Navassa defeated.
IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners' strike.
HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.
CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.
NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.
CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War
KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.
PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.
NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.
CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.
PHILIPPINES 1898-1910 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos
CUBA 1898-1902 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.
PUERTO RICO 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.
GUAM 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.
MINNESOTA 1898 (-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.
NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.
SAMOA 1899 (-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.
NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.
IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d'Alene mining region.
OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.
PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914.
HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.
KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.
CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.
NICARAGUA 1907 Troops "Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up.
HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua
PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.
NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.
HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.
CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
PANAMA 1912 Troops Marines land during heated election.
HONDURAS 1912 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.
NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 10-year occupation, fought guerillas
MEXICO 1913 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.
COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners' strike by Army.
MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists.
HAITI 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts.
TEXAS 1915 Troops Federal soldiers crush "Plan of San Diego" Mexican-American rebellion
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation.
CUBA 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate.
WORLD WAR I 1917-18 Naval, troops Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years.
RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five landings to fight Bolsheviks
PANAMA 1918-20 Troops "Police duty" during unrest after elections.
HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign.
YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops/Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.
GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists.
WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers.
TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna.
CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt.
HONDURAS 1924-25 Troops Landed twice during election strife.
PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike.
CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country.
EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships send during Marti revolt.
WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.
WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.
DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.
IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.
YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.
URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.
GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.
CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.
PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.
IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.
VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige.
GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.
LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Marine occupation against rebels.
IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.
CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.
PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.
VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.
CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.
GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.
LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.
CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.
IRAQ 1963 Command operation CIA organizes coup that killed president, brings Ba'ath Party to power, and Saddam Hussein back from exile to be head of the secret service.
PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.
INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Marines land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.
DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles African Americans, 43 killed.
UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.
CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.
OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.
LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.
SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.
MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.
CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.
CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash.
ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.
IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.
LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.
EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.
NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions.
GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.
HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.
IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.
LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov't.
BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.
IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.
LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.
VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.
PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.
PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.
SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.
IRAQ 1990-91 Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.
KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.
IRAQ 1991-2003 Bombing, naval No-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south; constant air strikes and naval-enforced economic sanctions
LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.
SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.
HAITI 1994 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Marines at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.
AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
IRAQ 1998 Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.
YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole, docked in Aden, bombed.
MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.
UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC
AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation.
YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.
PHILIPPINES 2002-? Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into combat missions in Sulu Archipelago, west of Mindanao.
COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.
IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Saddam regime toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi'ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases.
LIBERIA 2003 Troops Brief involvement in peacekeeping force as rebels drove out leader.
HAITI 2004-05 Troops, naval Marines land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington.
PAKISTAN 2005-? Missiles, bombing, covert operation CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network.
SOMALIA 2006-? Missiles, naval, covert operation Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamist government; AC-130 strikes and Cruise missile attacks against Islamist rebels; naval blockade against "pirates" and insurgents.
SYRIA 2008 Troops Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq kill 8 Syrian civilians
YEMEN 2009 Missiles Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians.


Compared to Chinas Agression:

0





Then you continue on about making Australia a massive target for Chinese weapons systems in the even tof an engagement between China and USA - you retard - why ? Why should we get blown away by China for Americas interest when we get no benefit.


You are so ridiculously stupid.

Have a nice day.
Edited by audas, 18 May 2012, 02:59 PM.
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peter fraser
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audas
18 May 2012, 02:47 PM
Hey mike - thanks for another ridiculous post - which can be utterly shot down, you along with it in one single link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M&feature=related

Oh, God, that was good - you absolute moron, well, guess you look like a retarded monkey now don't you.

Have a nice day.

Seriously we just ain't a military power of any size unless our opponent is Fiji or Tonga. Who cares if the planes are good or bad, we don't have enough of them to be a threat.

Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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NotFooled
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The Bear Whisperer

audas
18 May 2012, 02:47 PM
Hey mike - thanks for another ridiculous post - which can be utterly shot down, you along with it in one single link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M&feature=related

Oh, God, that was good - you absolute moron, well, guess you look like a retarded monkey now don't you.

Have a nice day.
If you posted your silly rant to a real military forum you'd be shot down faster than an Iraqi MiG in a no-fly zone.
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