Interesting comment from 'Anton', one of the Macrobusiness members yesterday, initiated by David Llewellyn-Smith accusing 3D1K of being an astroturfer...
Quote:
I read somewhere this week a comment that blogs are becoming groupings of likeminded people and different views are being hounded out. Mining blogs for miners, property blogs for property people, economics blogs supporting certain theories etc etc. The comment said it was a pity that this apartheid (my word)of views occurred instead of having people with various differing views discussing things which would give a more rounded picture of various subjects. When I first started reading MB one comment I made was how refreshing it was to see different points of view being discussed in an adult manner. It appears certain points of view are now not really welcome on this blog. Which will be a pity for those reading it and also will reduce the usefulness of MB.
Here are some responses to Anton from the owner of Macrobusiness, David Llewelyn-Smith (Houses & Holes)...
Quote:
Balls, Anton. 3d1k produces 5% of this blog’s comments. And you are accusing me of making him unwelcome? ... He is very obviously an astroturfer but I allow him to continue ... 3d1k is allowed to go on. Just don’t ask me to not point out that he’s astroturfing ... You astroturfers can’t take a joke ... That team of astroturfers you’ve got is doing a good job
And some responses from other MB members...
Quote:
it seems ironic to me that you are frustrated with house views here, as most of us have gone years without any forum, written or social, at which these thoughts could have been discussed without being over whelmed by a house view to the contrary ... If the house view here is too bearish, 99% of the Aussie media out there provides a “contrarian view” to enjoy ... It’s great having lively discussions but occasionally the hidden agendas of industry insiders are quite obvious. ... anton, grow up. MB isnt a democracy its H&H’s blog and he can do and say what he likes. if you dont like it go elswhwere, you wont be missed.
It appears to me that Macrobusiness perhaps began with the aim of allowing free speech, fair and equal discussion and debate among members, but has lurched towards a far more polarised environment, where people who present non-conforming views on MB are now dismissed as 'astroturfers' and 'vested interests' by the owners and dominant bear members of the blog. This seems to be the same fate experienced by GHPC and Credit Crunch. Both of those forums also began with good intentions, free speech, equality between bulls and bears etc., but over time they drifted towards the bearish ideology, and non-conforming members were dismissed as 'trolls', censored and eventually banned.
Is APF destined to follow the same path, like all the others? Is this the ultimate fate for all blogs and forums?
Is APF destined to follow the same path, like all the others? Is this the ultimate fate for all blogs and forums?
There is a natural tendency for forums to polarise and dissent to be quashed. the old ford vs holden scenario, the pack mentality.
in APF's favour is light moderation and only one moderator who doesn't get involved (at least under his moderator sign in). we wouldn't know whether Alex is a bull, bear or koala. i think on other forums mods have also had opinions and therefore been accused of actions based on their bullishness/bearishness, which has contributed to their decline.
on the flip side i also think heavy and unapologetic moderation works. S&S works because moderation is at times heavy and unapologetic - you either accept it or leave. So S&S has built a community of posters who want to talk about all sorts of stuff with an emphasis on property and IT - but it's not going to be the most busy property forum either.
Yes. When people are challenged on their position, especially if it is an irrational one, it pushes them to the extremes.
Eventually, the extremists tend to push out the moderates. When the moderates leave, one group of extremists will eventually gain the upper hand through numbers, and the forum will descend into group think.
Moderation is definitely not the answer. I've seen forums that are moderate to the extreme, and all they attract is cowards with wishy washy bullshit fairy thinking. (Hacker News for example).
Life is messy, and full of conflict. You need to take a stand for what you believe in. If you can't do that in the relative safety of an internet forum, then I've got bad news for you In Real Life!
For the 'old timers' here who remember usenet, and in particular the 'alt'[1] newsgroups, the one thing that usenet had in the client that internet forums do not is a kill file. An extremely useful tool for filtering out the extremists, and removing the temptation to feed trolls by not seeing their posts.
The first internet forum software to offer a 'kill file' will eventually take the market IMNSHO. Just getting rid of Nelson's trollaciousness would be a blessing.
[1] It's rumoured that 'alt' stood for anarchists lunatics and terrorists
Yes. When people are challenged on their position, especially if it is an irrational one, it pushes them to the extremes.
Eventually, the extremists tend to push out the moderates. When the moderates leave, one group of extremists will eventually gain the upper hand through numbers, and the forum will descend into group think.
Moderation is definitely not the answer. I've seen forums that are moderate to the extreme, and all they attract is cowards with wishy washy bullshit fairy thinking. (Hacker News for example).
Life is messy, and full of conflict. You need to take a stand for what you believe in. If you can't do that in the relative safety of an internet forum, then I've got bad news for you In Real Life!
For the 'old timers' here who remember usenet, and in particular the 'alt'[1] newsgroups, the one thing that usenet had in the client that internet forums do not is a kill file. An extremely useful tool for filtering out the extremists, and removing the temptation to feed trolls by not seeing their posts.
The first internet forum software to offer a 'kill file' will eventually take the market IMNSHO. Just getting rid of Nelson's trollaciousness would be a blessing.
[1] It's rumoured that 'alt' stood for anarchists lunatics and terrorists
Pretty much all internet forum systems have an "ignore" feature, including this one, that enables you to not see the posts of any users you specify. Is that what you are looking for?
PS: To use it here, click on a users name, and under the "profile options" menu there is an "ignore user" option you can select.
Pretty much all internet forum systems have an "ignore" feature, including this one, that enables you to not see the posts of any users you specify. Is that what you are looking for?
PS: To use it here, click on a users name, and under the "profile options" menu there is an "ignore user" option you can select.
Awesome. I never look at other people's profile so I was unaware that existed. Cheers.
Yes. When people are challenged on their position, especially if it is an irrational one, it pushes them to the extremes.
Eventually, the extremists tend to push out the moderates. When the moderates leave, one group of extremists will eventually gain the upper hand through numbers, and the forum will descend into group think.
Moderation is definitely not the answer. I've seen forums that are moderate to the extreme, and all they attract is cowards with wishy washy bullshit fairy thinking. (Hacker News for example).
Life is messy, and full of conflict. You need to take a stand for what you believe in. If you can't do that in the relative safety of an internet forum, then I've got bad news for you In Real Life!
For the 'old timers' here who remember usenet, and in particular the 'alt'[1] newsgroups, the one thing that usenet had in the client that internet forums do not is a kill file. An extremely useful tool for filtering out the extremists, and removing the temptation to feed trolls by not seeing their posts.
The first internet forum software to offer a 'kill file' will eventually take the market IMNSHO. Just getting rid of Nelson's trollaciousness would be a blessing.
[1] It's rumoured that 'alt' stood for anarchists lunatics and terrorists
Pretty much all internet forum systems have an "ignore" feature, including this one, that enables you to not see the posts of any users you specify. Is that what you are looking for?
PS: To use it here, click on a users name, and under the "profile options" menu there is an "ignore user" option you can select.
I've never used the block feature, I would rather read the comment regardless. I don't think that MB has that feature, although I've never looked at their suite of add ons.
3d1k is one of the best and most interesting bloggers over at MB and I always try to read his input. Whether or not I agree he is worth a read.
Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
This seems to be the same fate experienced by GHPC and Credit Crunch. Both of those forums also began with good intentions, free speech, equality between bulls and bears etc., but over time they drifted towards the bearish ideology, and non-conforming members were dismissed as 'trolls', censored and eventually banned.
How about the bull forums you failed to mention like some-are-soft & propertyinvesting.com Did you conveniently forgot about them ?
Anyhow it was you and the other bulls that ruined ghpc & credit crunch with your relentless bull propaganda and house price to the moon spruiking, they were both good forums until you & your mates arrived
Anyhow it was you and the other bulls that ruined ghpc & credit crunch with your relentless bull propaganda and house price to the moon spruiking, they were both good forums until you & your mates arrived
So basically you're saying you dont like any opinions that are counter to your preconceived beliefs. In that case, you are part of the problem too. In fact you are worse than the bulls you bitch about. I would say bears destroy forums by becoming increasingly close-minded and abusive as their long wished for reality does not eventuate.
Anyhow it was you and the other bulls that ruined ghpc & credit crunch with your relentless bull propaganda and house price to the moon spruiking, they were both good forums until you & your mates arrived
So basically you're saying you dont like any opinions that are counter to your preconceived beliefs. In that case, you are part of the problem too. In fact you are worse than the bulls you bitch about. I would say bears destroy forums by becoming increasingly close-minded and abusive as their long wished for reality does not eventuate.
The reality is NoTool, that house prices are falling (much to your chagrin)
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