Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 7
Is Macrobusiness operating illegally?; ASIC and Internet Discussion Sites (IDS) - Regulatory Guide 162
Topic Started: 28 Apr 2012, 02:02 PM (6,033 Views)
Strindberg
Member Avatar


The issue

It appears that the discussion of financial services securities on the internet is regulated by ASIC.
A reading of the relevant ASIC documentation indicates that a site considered by ASIC to be what they call an Internet Discussion Site (IDS) must not contain information, recommendations or opinions about financial products by financial services professionals.

What ASIC say

The relevant ASIC documents are:

http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/LookupByFileName/ps162.pdf/$file/ps162.pdf
ACIS Regulatory Guide 162 – Internet Discussion Sites
http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/LookupByFileName/Consultation-paper-104-Internet%20discussion%20sites.pdf/$file/Consultation-paper-104-Internet%20discussion%20sites.pdf
ASIC Consultation Paper 104 – Internet Discussion Sites

In the second document ASIC explain what they mean by IDS thus:

Quote:
 
What we mean by ‘internet discussion sites’
1 By the term ‘internet discussion sites’ (IDSs), we mean internet websites,
such as web-based bulletin boards, ‘blogs’, or chat rooms, that provide a
forum for people who are not financial services professionals to display
information, recommendations and opinions about financial products. People
generally register their details with an IDS, which allows them to then ‘post’
material on the IDS that can be viewed by other people.
2 IDSs operate under a variety of models, with different levels of involvement
by the operator of the IDS. Some ID S operators have little involvement in
the postings; on the other hand, there may be operators who are able to
monitor, edit, control or modify postings, or even make postings themselves.


The regulation 162 further states that if the IDS operator is a licensee the IDS must be operated by as a licensed activity.

Quote:
 
IDS operated by licensees
RG 162.27 To avoid the risk of investors being misled, licensees
must operate IDS only as a licensed activity.


Further, the regulation states that the giving of securities advice requires the IDS to operate under a license.

Quote:
 
Newsgroups and sites where advice is given
RG 162.33 Any IDS that involves the giving of securities advice
must operate under a licence.


They further explain that warnings and disclosures are insufficient if the operator is himself a licensee and emphasise that the site must be operated as a licensed activity if the operator is a licensee.

Quote:
 
IDS operated by licensees
RG 162.35 If a licensee operates an IDS, users may be prone to
regard it as part of the securities business the licensee carries on. They
may therefore treat it differently from an IDS operated by someone
who is not a licensed adviser or dealer. We do not think that the
warnings and disclosures in our guidelines are sufficient to minimise
the risk that people using the IDS wi ll regard it as a licensed activity.
For example, postings made by a licensee, whether as an original
contribution or as a comment on other postings, will tend to have an
authority different from that of other postings. This means they should
attract the obligations that apply to the holder of a licence.
RG 162.36 In our view, therefore, it is not appropriate to allow
licensees to operate IDS except as a licensed activity


An important restriction states that no licensed or authorised people are allowed to post on IDS. The regulation states:

Quote:
 
RG 162.52 We do not allow people to make postings in their
capacity as licensees or authorised people. This is because IDS
operated within these guidelines are intended solely as a facility for
non-professionals to exchange information, advice and opinions about
securities. They should not be used or held out as facilities where users can get professional investment advice. If a licensed person uses
an IDS to provide opinions, that may increase the risk that users will
be misled about the nature of the service.


Summary

If my reading is correct,

1. IDS are solely a facility for non-professionals to exchange information, advice and opinions about securities.
2. Licensed professionals must not post on IDSs.

It appears that as long as everyone posting on the IDS is an unlicensed amateur then everything is fine and dandy as far as ASIC and the law is concerned providing there are appropriate warnings and disclosures. On that basis APF appears to have nothing to be concerned about. We are all very clearly amateurs.

Macrobusiness

Is Macrobusiness an IDS? They certainly discuss financial products ie securities. They certainly give investment advice eg:
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2011/07/time-to-buy-jb-hi-fi/

It appears that some Macrobusiness blogs are written by financial services professionals. The above link includes the statement that the blog author is
Quote:
 
a Director of a private investment company (Empire Investing Pty Ltd), which has an interest in the business mentioned in this article (JB Hi Fi).

Further statements about the authors can be found here:
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/04/the-spiral-takes-another-victim-jbh/

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/04/the-spiral-takes-another-victim-jbh/#comment-143975

Quote:
 
This is no train I’m getting on board, although I do admit in my trading business (my short term system only) I short JBH from time to time…when in Rome…


..and here:
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/04/where-are-the-etfs/

Quote:
 
A recent chat with new MacroBusiness blogger Prometheus had me thinking about the problems surrounding the so-called “retail” investment space in Australia. As professional investors, Prometheus and I have access – or a willingness more like it – to advanced tools and products that turn macro analysis into actionable ideas into (hopefully) profit.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/chris-becker/

Quote:
 
Chris Becker writes as The Prince. Chris is a proprietary equities trader and investing strategist, and a co-founder of Empire Investing, a private value investing company. Chris is a former financial advisor and portfolio manager for a boutique financial services company with extensive experience in equities analysis, investing and derivatives trading.


Comment

I may of course have completely misunderstood ASIC's and/or Macrobusiness's positions. I'm sure you'll let me know if I have. However, it seems the question in the thread title is legitimate and worthy of discussion.

Edited by Strindberg, 28 Apr 2012, 05:47 PM.
Housing costs to Income broadly unchanged since 1994 - re-ratified here
The People of Australia have the highest median wealth in the World
2002-2012 10 year house price growth the SLOWEST since 1952-1962
"There are two kinds of people in this world: ones that fiddle around wondering whether a thing's right or wrong and guys like us." (Hugo to Gagin in Ride the Pink Horse)
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
newjez
Member Avatar


It's good that you're not obsessed by this. You wouldn't want it to get unhealthy.
Whenever you have an argument with someone, there comes a moment where you must ask yourself, whatever your political persuasion, 'am I the Nazi?'
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Strindberg
Member Avatar


newjez
28 Apr 2012, 04:33 PM
It's good that you're not obsessed by this. You wouldn't want it to get unhealthy.
Don't you find it interesting that financial services professionals are not allowed to even offer information or opinions on Internet Discussion Sites? I wasn't aware that the regulations, and perhaps the law, were quite so strong. Macrobusiness must be totally unaware.
I can see ASIC's point. Postings from declared financial services professionals may be seen by some as carrying authority and worth. Such a perception may lead some people to act on the basis of such postings without the appropriate protections despite warnings and disclaimers.
Housing costs to Income broadly unchanged since 1994 - re-ratified here
The People of Australia have the highest median wealth in the World
2002-2012 10 year house price growth the SLOWEST since 1952-1962
"There are two kinds of people in this world: ones that fiddle around wondering whether a thing's right or wrong and guys like us." (Hugo to Gagin in Ride the Pink Horse)
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Simon the likeable
Default APF Avatar


And yet a huge number of real estate professionals such as agents use lies and deceit as a standard operating procedure.
Funny old world, isn't it ?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Strindberg
Member Avatar


Simon the likeable
28 Apr 2012, 06:18 PM
And yet a huge number of real estate professionals such as agents use lies and deceit as a standard operating procedure.
Funny old world, isn't it ?
Real estate professionals have a host of obligations under the terms of their licence.

Quote:
 
A customer can make a claim if you:

- engage in misleading or unreasonable conduct (marketeering contraventions)
- fail to deal properly with trust money
- make false representations about a property
- fail to provide written statements about the purchase of vacant land that cannot be used for residential purposes before they sign the contract
- fail to provide a written statement identifying the proposed lot being purchased
- steal, misappropriate or misapply property entrusted to you as agent for someone else, e.g. you do not forward bond monies to the Residential Tenancies Authority.

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/property-agent-legal-requirements.htm

I suggest you make a claim if you have suffered from lies and deceit. Tell us about it.
Housing costs to Income broadly unchanged since 1994 - re-ratified here
The People of Australia have the highest median wealth in the World
2002-2012 10 year house price growth the SLOWEST since 1952-1962
"There are two kinds of people in this world: ones that fiddle around wondering whether a thing's right or wrong and guys like us." (Hugo to Gagin in Ride the Pink Horse)
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
themoops
Member Avatar
Ruby Member
Leave them alone you sick fuck.

99% of the media is on your side and you've got a hard on for the 1% of it that is run by good people.

I vote no more MB threads like this. I should be given admin privileges to stop this.
stinkbug omosessuale


Frank Castle is a liar and a criminal. He will often deliberately take people out of context and use straw man arguments.
Frank finally and unintentionally gives it up and admits he got where he is, primarily via dumb luck!
See here
Property will be 50-70% off by 2016.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Jacks money
Member Avatar


Strindberg
28 Apr 2012, 06:42 PM
Real estate professionals have a host of obligations under the terms of their licence.

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/property-agent-legal-requirements.htm

I suggest you make a claim if you have suffered from lies and deceit. Tell us about it.


but the issue is not about the agent making claims that one particular asset is the right investment for you (as they are specifically excluded from FSRA)
The issue I understand from Mr Strings is wether the heading "disclaimer" is or is not sufficient to absolve responciilities of the regulations.
While regulations are necessary to reduce fraudulant activities I'm actually sad that we need more and more red tape - just get on with life and "to do others just like you would have others do to you"
It’s not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you - Frank Zappa
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
genX
Default APF Avatar


Quote:
 
Don't you find it interesting that financial services professionals are not allowed to even offer information or opinions on Internet Discussion Sites?


Not particularly. Although I don't find it surprising. ASIC's job is to protect the Financial Services Industry, regardless of how shit they are, so it makes sense that they would write laws to prevent people for bringing the woeful performance of these professionals to the attention of the public.

Quote:
 
I can see ASIC's point. Postings from declared financial services professionals may be seen by some as carrying authority and worth.


Bwahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh. Oh wait ... were you serious?

Quote:
 
Such a perception may lead some people to act on the basis of such postings without the appropriate protections despite warnings and disclaimers.


Yeah, you wouldn't want someone to act on advice from someone without reading the Product Disclosure Statement or Statement Of Advice and any one of the dozen little forms that essentially say "We are advising you to gamble your money, and the risk is all yours, do you understand?"

They need to shut that site down IMMEDIATELY!!!

FOR THE CHILDREN!!!

WONT YOU PLEASE THINK OF THE LITTLE CHILDREN????!!!!
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Naomi
Default APF Avatar

Quote:
 
Is Macrobusiness operating illegally?
It's possible the owners of Macrobusiness aren't aware of those rules, and don't even realise they might be acting illegally. But ignorance of the law is no excuse, they should really have made it their business to be on top of the legal situation, before establishing their blog.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Shadow
Member Avatar
Evil Mouzealot Specufestor

A google advanced search for ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 site:http://macrobusiness.com.au reveals no results.

So it seems Macrobusiness haven't even considered their responsibilities here... this could be quite a serious breach of the law.

Other equity discussion sites like HotCopper and AussieStockForums do have sections describing their responsibilities under ASIC Regulatory Guide 162.

Lift your game Macrobusiness!
1. Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.
2. Residential property loans regulated by NCCP Act. Banks can't margin call unless borrower defaults.
3. Housing is second highest taxed sector of Australian Economy. Renters subsidised by highly taxed homeowners.
4. Ongoing improvement in housing affordability. Australian household formation faster than population growth since 1960s.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 7



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy