Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
Is there any more maligned group of people than Generation X and Y?; We've watched as house prices skyrocketed, meaning we can't afford to buy homes
Topic Started: 26 Apr 2012, 10:56 PM (7,316 Views)
Sydneyite
Member Avatar


themoops
29 Apr 2012, 07:24 PM
Well they clearly have in a lot of areas in Sydney given my parents example, it's a big place, and it's hard to get an accurate picture based just on averages and medians.

Sure the inner ring will never be 3 times, but it wouldn't surprise me if the outer ring became like this again.
Yes, I agree that parts of the outer ring could easily reach 3 x single average wage in a dire scenario. In fact many areas are not far off that right now. There are plenty of sub $300k median suburbs out west and south-west. That's 4 x the average wage right now already.
Edited by Sydneyite, 29 Apr 2012, 07:56 PM.
For Aussie property bears, "denial", is not just a long river in North Africa.....
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
miw
Member Avatar


themoops
29 Apr 2012, 07:24 PM
Well they clearly have in a lot of areas in Sydney given my parents example, it's a big place, and it's hard to get an accurate picture based just on averages and medians.

Sure the inner ring will never be 3 times, but it wouldn't surprise me if the outer ring became like this again.

Did you see 9 news last night? They had a story about some off the plan apartment sales in China Town, 99% of the buyers were Asian, it was an absolute shambles and free for all like the Boxing Day sales. It doesn't seem suspect to you that Rudd had to loosen up the FIRB laws to prevent prices from going down?

10,000 were buyers that needed FIRB approval in 2010-11, this would very much help to give an appearance of stability in the housing market.
It's been like that forever. If you don't have permanent residence, you can only buy new housing.

Came to my attention in a big way in 1998 when I looked at some off-the-plan apartments and was astounded by the prices given what better apartments almost next-door were getting. Then the sales guy told me that almost all the stock was being sold in Hong Kong.

Since then I wouldn't touch off-the-plan housing with a 40-foot pole.

Unless Rudd made it easier for people to get FIRB approval for the purchase of existing housing (did he? I really don't know) he didn't make much change. I looked into the situation sometime about 2007 or 8 for a Chinese friend, and the legal opinion I got was approval is automatic for new housing and near-impossible for existing housing. The exception was for someone enrolled for a multi-year education course, and then you had to promise to sell at the end if you didn't achieve permanent residence. No idea how stricly enforced that is, though. Seems hard to enforce.
Edited by miw, 29 Apr 2012, 07:54 PM.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
genX
Default APF Avatar


Quote:
 
How else do you think average wage data can be determined?


Ever heard of group tax? The ATO collects it every month.
And yet the ABS needs to conduct a survey to perform a statistical estimate of wages.

Quote:
 

No - it is "standard" practice when discussing house price to income ratios to use the median house price and the average wage.

So you are repeating other people's lies. Thanks for confirming.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Sydneyite
Member Avatar


genX
29 Apr 2012, 07:55 PM
Ever heard of group tax? The ATO collects it every month.
And yet the ABS needs to conduct a survey to perform a statistical estimate of wages.
I think you are talking about PAYG with-holding tax? You clearly don't run a business, because if you did you would know that the ATO is only given a total monthly lump sum payment of all PAYG witholding for all employee's of a business, and there is no other information provided, such as number of staff, the actually wages earned on an individual basis etc. So the monthly PAYG data cannot be used to determine actual wages across the economy. There is an individual group certificate issued each year via the ATO, but relying on that would mean you could only get wage data once a year - not good enough.

Anyway if you are such an expert maybe you should get a job at the ABS and sort everything out for them?

Quote:
 
So you are repeating other people's lies. Thanks for confirming.
OK - whatever. Wake me when you can point to a good source of median wage data and we can change the world.
Edited by Sydneyite, 29 Apr 2012, 08:04 PM.
For Aussie property bears, "denial", is not just a long river in North Africa.....
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
peter fraser
Member Avatar


those
28 Apr 2012, 01:29 PM
peter fraser
28 Apr 2012, 07:15 AM
The boomers married and bought homes in their twenties. When Gen X reached that point in their life they chose to delay marriage until their thirties. It was a social shift brought on by a number of factors including the higher percentage of Gen X obtaining university qualifications, which set things back some years.

They chose to rent, but homes and apartments were still needed - someone had to buy them, so the boomers and many gen X did buy them.

Again, what would you have done differently? Gen X had a great opportunity to buy in the nineties but they didn't. Then the events of 911 happened, the world stimulated to get over a terrorist induced slump, and then China came along. In every mining boom we have a boom in house prices because some people have access to high wages, and they bid up the price of properties.

It's really much easier to buy a house now, than it has been in most of the past decades, but house prices are high, I agree with you on that. I think that our prices are correcting right now. In South East Qld homes are much cheaper than in Victoria and Sydney, so the homes that I see on the market around me in Brisbane aren't that highly priced for a country still being affected by a mining boom.

If you live in Melbourne or Sydney then you will have to be patient. I think that Melbourne will correct over the next 1 to 2 years, although Sydney appears to be quite different.

Wherever you are, I hope that you find a house at a price that is acceptable to you.
Peter, you made the point that people are the same but the circumstances they face might lead them to make different decisions. Are you asking me what I would have one differently to make the point that I would have done the same thing? If so, I agree with you.

But then why do you use language that implies that the situation faced by gen xers was due to their own choices? Eg, Boomers didn't "choose" to get married. They just "married and bought homes," because their circumstances dictated that was the best thing to do. But gen x "chose to delay marriage" and "chose to rent" and had "had opportunity to buy but didn't."

Did they make those choices despite their circumstances, or because of them?





Those - sorry I have been away over the weekend.

Quote:
 

But then why do you use language that implies that the situation faced by gen xers was due to their own choices? Eg, Boomers didn't "choose" to get married. They just "married and bought homes," because their circumstances dictated that was the best thing to do. But gen x "chose to delay marriage" and "chose to rent" and had "had opportunity to buy but didn't."

Did they make those choices despite their circumstances, or because of them?


Yes I concede that is a point well made. Gen X and Y made those choices because of their circumstances. Boomers could leave school at 15 and get a trade, which gave them a good income and a life. The generations before them could leave school at 13 and also get a trade etc.

But Gen X and Y had a much better education, which of course delayed their entry into the workforce, and many had to enter the workforce with a HEX or HELP debt.

Those - I don't know the answer to all of the questions, but I think that if Gen X and Y were in the same position as the boomers they would have done the same, and if the boomers were in X and Y positions, they would have done what X and Y have done.

My point is that it's useless finger pointing or demonising. History is full of examples of that and in every case it has achieved nothing constructive. People are people and they react to situations, although they can't often control situations.

At the end of the day we will all probably maintain our beliefs on this issue, but thank you for taking the time to discuss it and for being open minded.

Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
HSRboy
Member Avatar


stinkbug
29 Apr 2012, 01:59 PM
So we don't have factories. Where else could an unskilled, semi-skilled or skilled worker get a job.

*cough*mining*cough*
There are no mines in Melbourne or Sydney? :re:

A clean-room solar panel factory in Sydney that closed down recently is chalk-and-cheese from a dirty mine exporting coal.
Barnaby Joyce - Indians owning Coal mines in AUS is good, Chinese owning a cotton farm in AUS is bad

Aussie Home Sales at 11-year low: http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052702304459804577282401287187084-lMyQjAxMTAyMDEwNjExNDYyWj.html
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
v_vijay
Default APF Avatar

I'm 28 years old so would be categorized as Gen Y. Having grown up in Sydney, I and most of my friends plus the people I knew would eat out a 2-3 times a week, spend $100-$150 a week going out on the weekend, spend $70-$100 on monthly mobile phone plans, happily spend $200+ on a pair of jeans, $4 for a coffee.... Heck, I even had a BMW.

This kind of spending was normal for myself and most people I knew. And we would all complain about houses being too expensive and that it was a joke.

I was earning $50k per year.

Two years ago I moved to Germany to be with my girlfriend (I work from home so can live anywhere I like :-D) and have come to understand that people in Sydney (and I'm guessing most of Australia) will happily waste their money. Going out in Sydney, it's normal to spend $20 on cover charge and then $8+ for drinks. That is a joke and only a clown would happily pay that. I did, but not anymore.

I don't have the sense of entitlement anymore.

I now make all my own meals at home, pack a lunch if working away from home. I only eat out on Friday nights. Have an old phone and only use prepaid. Don't care anymore what car I drive as most luxury brands are completely overated. A day out on the weekend now is buying a coffee and going for a walk.

I'm still in Germany and recently bought an investment property in Australia for $330k including stamp duty (loan was $250k). I'm a bear but got an offer I couldn't refuse. I can already sell the place for a gain but in for the long term.

The other thing I learnt after moving overseas is that Sydney is one of the most desirable places in the world to live. You should see how many people in Europe are dying to move to Sydney. It's rare to find such a safe, friendly city so close to top quality beaches and with great weather (not including the current rain). That's a premium people are willing to pay for so I don't see prices dropping too much anywhere east of Auburn/Lidcombe. I think the outer suburbs will experience falls over the coming years.

I'll be back in 2-3 years and will be happy to pay that premium to live in Sydney even though I think it's expensive. Didn't realize what a great place it was until moving overseas and traveling a bit. With my income plus the income I'm expecting from my IP in a couple of years I will be able to afford a place in one of Sydney's nicer suburbs. I will still have to live frugally but that is expected when you have a mortgage--something most Gen Y (not sure about Gen X) don't seem to understand.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
stinkbug
Member Avatar


HSRboy
30 Apr 2012, 02:25 AM
There are no mines in Melbourne or Sydney? :re:

A clean-room solar panel factory in Sydney that closed down recently is chalk-and-cheese from a dirty mine exporting coal.
Is someone twisting your arm to live in Sydney or Melbourne? :re:

People often come to cities for work, but in Aus it's gone too far.

That said, if you live in Sydney or Melbourne, and genuinely can't find work, how about moving to a part of Aus where there is demand? Not just mining, but the agricultural sector in many places also needs workers. Alternatively you could upskill into an industry where people are in demand, even in the big cities!

The situation is what it is - you can either get on board and make it work for you, or languish and whinge.
---------------------------------------------------------------

While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Frank Castle
Member Avatar
Business As Usual

themoops
28 Apr 2012, 08:38 PM
Also the type of work most boomers did was basic compared to what you have to learn to get a decent wage these days.
What about truck drivers getting $100k plus?
What about the cleaners on a mine site?
Given a bit of time and inclination I could come up with numerous low skilled relatively high paying jobs

So many high paying jobs that just weren't available to previous generations
Edited by Frank Castle, 30 Apr 2012, 09:16 AM.
Ignore posts by The Whole Truth · View Post · End Ignoring
The forum fuckwit goes RRRAAARRRGGHHhhh - But not a fuck was given..................by anyone.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
miw
Member Avatar


v_vijay
30 Apr 2012, 05:49 AM

Two years ago I moved to Germany to be with my girlfriend (I work from home so can live anywhere I like :-D) and have come to understand that people in Sydney (and I'm guessing most of Australia) will happily waste their money. Going out in Sydney, it's normal to spend $20 on cover charge and then $8+ for drinks. That is a joke and only a clown would happily pay that. I did, but not anymore.

I don't have the sense of entitlement anymore.

I now make all my own meals at home, pack a lunch if working away from home. I only eat out on Friday nights. Have an old phone and only use prepaid. Don't care anymore what car I drive as most luxury brands are completely overated. A day out on the weekend now is buying a coffee and going for a walk.


Going to Germany will do that to you. :-) I had a similar experience. (except that I went to Germany on a scholarship.) 18 months of not having any money, turning over every penny and regarding McDonalds as too expensive certainly made it easier me to save up a deposit when I got back.

Not sure I totally buy into the whole Boomer/Gen-X/Gen-Y thing. In the end it's all people and people will react in similar ways when faced with similar circumstances. Certainly being forced to scrimp and save and limit your calorie intake for financial rather than health reasons at some time in your life will make you better at saving money. Maybe a higher proportion of boomers got that experience earlier in their lives. But there are also plenty of people in Gen-X and Gen-Y who have never had it easy too.

For the record I am just too young to be a boomer, but just too old to be classed as Gen-X. (Gen-W?)

At least you had a BMW at a time in your life when you could get full value out of it. :-)

On the topic of getting a fat job driving trucks at a mine site: It is actually harder to get that type of work thatn you might think. My brother moved into the resources industry from farming as someone who was already a skilled heavy machinery operator. Regardless, it took him nearly 2 years to break into the industry, and he had to start at the bottom (admittedly on a very good wage for an entry-level position) and now he has become one of the mafia getting is mates and connections to the head of the queue for a job on the drilling rig.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy