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Is there any more maligned group of people than Generation X and Y?; We've watched as house prices skyrocketed, meaning we can't afford to buy homes
Topic Started: 26 Apr 2012, 10:56 PM (7,319 Views)
themoops
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miw
28 Apr 2012, 06:45 PM
I accept that there are some people who will never believe that people faced approximately equal difficulties in the past to what people are facing now. Hell. There are still people who haven't bought the fact that the earth is round, Elvis is dead and the global temperature is increasing. Capacity for self delusion is truly amazing in some people.

But it doesn't matter. All we need to understand is that:
a) The past is the past and it ain't coming back regardless of whether it was better or worse or whether we want it to or not.
b) Things can still get worse from here.
c) If you don't do something now to save for your future, you will be complaining about the high cost of dogfood *and* rent when you get older. (So if you think property is a crock of shit, you have to have another plan.)

A sense of entitlement just makes it harder to accept reality, which is why I feel the media is doing everybody a disservice at the moment.
I won't believe it because they did not face approximately equal difficulties. It's just infantile maths and a matter of sticking your head out the window and looking at your watch when you're taking not of how long it takes to get to work.

House prices in Sydney were, up until about 1998 or so before the boom, about 3-5 times the average wage, now they are about 9 times. 9 times is a lot more than 3-5 times. Get it?

The past will probably come back if we have a property crash and a global depression.

Also the type of work most boomers did was basic compared to what you have to learn to get a decent wage these days.
stinkbug omosessuale


Frank Castle is a liar and a criminal. He will often deliberately take people out of context and use straw man arguments.
Frank finally and unintentionally gives it up and admits he got where he is, primarily via dumb luck!
See here
Property will be 50-70% off by 2016.
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genX
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My parents were not boomers, they were the last of the Lucky Generation. We owned a Holden Kingswood HK for 20 years. The one and only time we travelled overseas is when we lived in the States for a year. Our holidays consisted of camping trips at Bateman's Bay and in the mountains around Canberra.

Sydneyite
28 Apr 2012, 01:29 PM
In wage relative terms I bet private school fees are just the same now as for the Boomers.


Not even close. But my kids don't go to private schools, I was talking about PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

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Anyway, did your boomer parents send you to private school?


My parents were not boomers, and no, I did not go to a private school.

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But over-all you actually spend a significantly smaller proportion of your income on food and groceries than the boomers did.


Yes, but I pay a lot more tax on them.

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Of course being early Gen-X, you could have bought a house anytime since the early - mid 90s (lie myself and MANY gen-Xers did), and then you wouldn't be whining about house prices at all.


Unfortunately my wage at the time did not support doing so. I can afford to buy a house now, if I am willing to spend 3 hours on a train getting to and from the office. But I think that would be a kind of madness. And madness is the speciality of Boomers, not Xers :lol

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Education for Gen-X has been a BIGGY - especially for women. Like any any group of people, the successful people learn how to leverage and take advantage of the education to advance their careers and income. Sounds like you have struggled to do that. I haven't. Why is that I wonder? It can't be generational, as we are of the same generation?


I earn a lot. But not through education. I have a specialised skill that very few people in Australia can do. Unfortunately, Australia is the country that pays the least for this skill. I could work in Tokyo, Hong Kong, Dubai, London, New York, LA, for at least twice or three times what I earn here. However, my family is more important to me.

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It's interesting that you seem to think the way to advance in the "corporate world" is to "put in long hours", which you haven't been prepared to


Well .... the traditional way to advance in the "corporate world" involves long hours. It did for my parents generation. Sounds like you've learned the Boomer way to advance. i.e. Tell whopping lies with a straight face. As to my preparedness, I actually worked 80 hour weeks at one point in my life, until I realized how stupid it was. The organisation I worked for rewarded failure and punished success, so the best course of action was to fail, but lie about it with calm and skill.

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I think there are definitely two distinct groups in Gen-X. One group partied very hard, traveled o/s in their 20s and just mucked around (vs doing it later and earning serious big bucks in your profession), saved little, consumed everything, rented, never bought property and so on. The other group, while still enjoying what life now had to offer, were a bit more career minded and investment focused, often putting off travel and other cool things until a little later once more established financially.


I'm in the third category. I worked hard and saved, but as I was never paid very much, I ended up with nothing. By the time I was well paid, the property boom had already sent property prices to such highs that I thought they were a poor investment. Now I'm invested in a diverse portfolio of fixed income, precious metals and cash.

I'm glad you are doing well and have succeeded in life. I don't envy your success, but I do worry about the future of this country and my children. Here are some economic facts to consider.

1) Housing debt is now 110% of GDP. That means that every 100 basis points in interest rates is a >1% drop in GDP (the inverse is also true, but lower interest rates mean the population takes on even MORE debt, and has an inflationary effect). Total household debt is 145% of GDP, which would indicate that households are taking on consumer debt (credit cards, car loans) so they can pay their mortgage.
There is no instance of a country's economy surviving in it's current form when debt goes beyond 100% of GDP. This is a huge topic, but Minsky's Instability Hypotheses explains the inherent instability in exponential processes such as compound interest.

2) Manufacturing has declined from 27% to 9% of GDP. What do Australians actually DO now? Borrow money from overseas to buy the same house over and over? Diggers and drillers? Banana growers? The second largest employer in Australia is the retail sector. Everyone is selling, but when the free money runs out, who is the buyer?

3) In 12 years time, when the bulk of the Boomers have retired, the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme is projected to cost more than the entire government budget! To pay for this, taxes on X and Y will need to double their present rate. The process has already started. The government is already moving to raise taxes, raise contribution rates for super, increase the tax on super, slash government spending on X and Y.

4) Chinese companies are starting to open factories in Indonesia, because of the rising cost of labour in China! If you think Chinese working for 35c an hour is bad for your future wages, wait till the Indonesians are working for 12c an hour! The products will be made in Indonesia, assembled in China, and sold for gold and bananas in Australia. :lol

Edited by genX, 28 Apr 2012, 09:54 PM.
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NotFooled
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The Bear Whisperer

Allot of butthurt in this thread. :re:
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stinkbug
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genX
28 Apr 2012, 09:51 PM
My parents were not boomers, they were the last of the Lucky Generation. We owned a Holden Kingswood HK for 20 years. The one and only time we travelled overseas is when we lived in the States for a year. Our holidays consisted of camping trips at Bateman's Bay and in the mountains around Canberra.


Are you a Canberra local? I am...
---------------------------------------------------------------

While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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genX
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stinkbug
28 Apr 2012, 10:33 PM
Are you a Canberra local? I am...


Not now. I grew up in Canberra (Belconnen High FTW) from age 7 to 14, and went back there for a few years in my late 20s to study at ANU as a mature age student.

Right now I am in Sydney. I have worked here on and off here for the last 24 years and I like this crumbling city less and less with each passing year.

I'm getting myself ready to leave, hence my thread about suburbs without Boomers, but there is a lot of inertia to overcome :wak:
Edited by genX, 28 Apr 2012, 10:51 PM.
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Sydneyite
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themoops
28 Apr 2012, 08:38 PM
House prices in Sydney were, up until about 1998 or so before the boom, about 3-5 times the average wage, now they are about 9 times. 9 times is a lot more than 3-5 times. Get it?
Absolute fucking horseshit statement. Maybe in Brisvegas, Adelaide etc, but not in Sydney mate, not since probably before WWII would that statement be even be close to being correct. I know in 1992 when I bought my first place in Sydney average wages were about $25k and median house price was about $180k = 7.2 times, and interest rates were 13%...... :hmm:

PS: Average dwelling (ie includes units / townhouses and houses etc) price in Sydney is currently about $500k, average full time wage = $70k (probably more in Sydney) = 7.1 price/wages ratio - not 9.
Edited by Sydneyite, 28 Apr 2012, 11:12 PM.
For Aussie property bears, "denial", is not just a long river in North Africa.....
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themoops
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Sydneyite
28 Apr 2012, 11:04 PM
Absolute fucking horseshit statement. Maybe in Brisvegas, Adelaide etc, but not in Sydney mate, not since probably before WWII would that statement be even be close to being correct. I know in 1992 when I bought my first place in Sydney average wages were about $25k and median house price was about $180k = 7.2 times, and interest rates were 13%...... :hmm:

PS: Average dwelling (ie includes units / townhouses and houses etc) price in Sydney is currently about $500k, average full time wage = $70k (probably more in Sydney) = 7.1 price/wages ratio - not 9.
You're a penis. I can't find one for Sydney but this is for Australia.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/0bd6ea4d7e0e401eca257300000473fc/f0cec5ea0891de1fca2576b20014714e/bodyrich/0.4448!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

I'll keep looking.
stinkbug omosessuale


Frank Castle is a liar and a criminal. He will often deliberately take people out of context and use straw man arguments.
Frank finally and unintentionally gives it up and admits he got where he is, primarily via dumb luck!
See here
Property will be 50-70% off by 2016.
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genX
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Sydneyite
28 Apr 2012, 11:04 PM
PS: Average dwelling (ie includes units / townhouses and houses etc) price in Sydney is currently about $500k, average full time wage = $70k (probably more in Sydney) = 7.1 price/wages ratio - not 9.
Sorry, average HOUSEHOLD income is $80k (two incomes). Average full time wage is $45k. House Price/Income ratio is actually closer to 11, but is usually reported as household income (6.25), not individual income.

Please don't repeat lies told in the media. And please don't insult the nearly 1 million people in this city who are working full time and making nowhere near 70k, because you risk coming off as a complete twat, and I haven't formed that opinion of you at this juncture.


Edited by genX, 28 Apr 2012, 11:40 PM.
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themoops
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Wages in on the left

Posted Image

In 1993 they were $35k

Posted Image

Looks like about $180k in 1993.

$35k * 5 = $175k.
stinkbug omosessuale


Frank Castle is a liar and a criminal. He will often deliberately take people out of context and use straw man arguments.
Frank finally and unintentionally gives it up and admits he got where he is, primarily via dumb luck!
See here
Property will be 50-70% off by 2016.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
themoops
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Average pay $61k

http://www.news.com.au/business/male-pay-packets-near-61000/story-e6frfm1i-1111114883151

Median house price $595k

http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/demand-but-no-supply-as-prices-head-north-20100303-pj3z.html#comments

$595k / $61k = 9.75

I think it's past your bedtime Sydneyite.
stinkbug omosessuale


Frank Castle is a liar and a criminal. He will often deliberately take people out of context and use straw man arguments.
Frank finally and unintentionally gives it up and admits he got where he is, primarily via dumb luck!
See here
Property will be 50-70% off by 2016.
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
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