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Is there any more maligned group of people than Generation X and Y?; We've watched as house prices skyrocketed, meaning we can't afford to buy homes
Topic Started: 26 Apr 2012, 10:56 PM (7,321 Views)
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themoops
27 Apr 2012, 10:05 PM
I'd like to know what you've done. I can't imagine the careers to be particularly different. Like maybe you went from programming to admin to IT sales.

If you're talking decently paid jobs then it's not possible to chop and change too much without putting in the 3-4 years of hard yards before each change.
Then you're not thinking (or acting?) as hard as you may need to, to cope with an unexpected change of circumstances.

My current role could scarcely be more different than where I started 4 years ago. I've worked in financial services, IT, and logistics, in roles ranging from line management to blue collar casual. And crucially, I've overlapped them (worked 1 1/2 - 2 jobs worth of hours wherever possible), weeding out the least productive effort at each stage.

So yes, it took 2 years of hard yards to reach my current main role in my new primary industry, but it wasn't the only valuable thing I qualified for or did in that period.
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those
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peter fraser
27 Apr 2012, 11:26 PM
The point is that you and almost everyone, regardless of generation, would have done the same thing, so with that in mind, what did they do wrong?
The point is about if it's more difficult for a family to buy a home now compared to how it was 20-30 years ago.

No gen x or gen y faults older generations for purchasing a family home.

But what about the investment properties? Isn't the idea behind an investment property that you will take advantage of your current financial position to profit from those who have not yet purchased a home?

Has the reality been that many boomers have purchased investment properties over the last 10-20 years, prices have inflated considerably (at least partly due to the increased demand from the boomers) and the potential future buyers for those properties are, in large part, boomers' own children?



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miw
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those
28 Apr 2012, 01:50 AM
peter fraser
27 Apr 2012, 11:26 PM
The point is that you and almost everyone, regardless of generation, would have done the same thing, so with that in mind, what did they do wrong?
The point is about if it's more difficult for a family to buy a home now compared to how it was 20-30 years ago.

No gen x or gen y faults older generations for purchasing a family home.

But what about the investment properties? Isn't the idea behind an investment property that you will take advantage of your current financial position to profit from those who have not yet purchased a home?

Has the reality been that many boomers have purchased investment properties over the last 10-20 years, prices have inflated considerably (at least partly due to the increased demand from the boomers) and the potential future buyers for those properties are, in large part, boomers' own children?



It is significantly easier now than it was at any time between 1974 and 1995. It got easier for a while in the late 90s until maybe 2004 and it has been getting easier again since about 2008.

I have no data on how hard or easy it was before 1974. My suspicion is that in the low inflation 60s it probably wasn't so hard *if* you could persuade a bank to give you a loan....

Right now my biggest worry would be uncertainty about the next 10 years and whether governments are going to let inflation out of the bag and drive interest rates to silly heights again...
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.
--Gloria Steinem
AREPS™
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peter fraser
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those
28 Apr 2012, 01:50 AM
peter fraser
27 Apr 2012, 11:26 PM
The point is that you and almost everyone, regardless of generation, would have done the same thing, so with that in mind, what did they do wrong?
The point is about if it's more difficult for a family to buy a home now compared to how it was 20-30 years ago.

No gen x or gen y faults older generations for purchasing a family home.

But what about the investment properties? Isn't the idea behind an investment property that you will take advantage of your current financial position to profit from those who have not yet purchased a home?

Has the reality been that many boomers have purchased investment properties over the last 10-20 years, prices have inflated considerably (at least partly due to the increased demand from the boomers) and the potential future buyers for those properties are, in large part, boomers' own children?



The boomers married and bought homes in their twenties. When Gen X reached that point in their life they chose to delay marriage until their thirties. It was a social shift brought on by a number of factors including the higher percentage of Gen X obtaining university qualifications, which set things back some years.

They chose to rent, but homes and apartments were still needed - someone had to buy them, so the boomers and many gen X did buy them.

Again, what would you have done differently? Gen X had a great opportunity to buy in the nineties but they didn't. Then the events of 911 happened, the world stimulated to get over a terrorist induced slump, and then China came along. In every mining boom we have a boom in house prices because some people have access to high wages, and they bid up the price of properties.

It's really much easier to buy a house now, than it has been in most of the past decades, but house prices are high, I agree with you on that. I think that our prices are correcting right now. In South East Qld homes are much cheaper than in Victoria and Sydney, so the homes that I see on the market around me in Brisbane aren't that highly priced for a country still being affected by a mining boom.

If you live in Melbourne or Sydney then you will have to be patient. I think that Melbourne will correct over the next 1 to 2 years, although Sydney appears to be quite different.

Wherever you are, I hope that you find a house at a price that is acceptable to you.

Any expressed market opinion is my own and is not to be taken as financial advice
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stinkbug
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genX
27 Apr 2012, 07:47 PM
Sorry stinkbug, it's just not true. Real wages are in decline, and traditionally income increases over the course of a career. You start on a low base, and before you retire you should be on the highest salary of your lifetime.

I'm an early Xer, so when I joined the workforce I was working with the Lucky Generation, the Boomers, and very few X. When I joined the workforce, the managers (Luckys) were earning somewhere between 20-50% more than their Boomer employees. In some extreme cases, it was 100% more.

As I progressed through my career, the income gap between Luckys and Boomers widened, but not by much. By the time the last of the Luckys retired, the gap was more like 40-70% and in extreme cases 200%. Once the Luckys retired, that was the end of the Age Of Prudence and Responsibility. From that point on, the Boomers went on a borrowing binge and began giving themselves pay rises like there was no tomorrow (literally).

Their largess did NOT extend to the Xers in their employ however. No, X salaries stayed flat (going backwards in real terms) as Boomers sourced cheap labour around the planet. By 2006, the Boomer managers were paying themselves MINIMUM 100% more than their X staff, the common range being 100-300% more, and the extreme cases were at 3300%. This situation persists to this day. (In fact, they are still moaning about how much they pay their staff, so expect more outsourcing and downsizing in a company near you.)

So here is some advice to the younger tail end of GenX, leave your job, because you are being screwed. If you can find a way to earn income from home, pursue it. If that is infeasible, find an investment strategy that hedges against the coming inflation. Sell your property if you can realize any capital gain, invest the gains in fixed income or precious metals. Invest in your education, spend more time with your children. Learn to cook and enjoy good food with good company.

I spent the last 10 years trying to figure out away to avoid what's coming. Perhaps it's a limitation of my intelligence, buy I don't see the path. So I am resigned to what comes. It may take 20 years, but it too will pass.
The real wildcard, though, is standard of living. The standard of living Gen X enjoy now (and yes, I'm a Gen X) is far better than the standard of living enjoyed by the boomers when at the same age. And this costs money.

I think Gen X have had amazing opportunity compared with the boomers. And of course, this has come at a cost.
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While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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barns
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stinkbug
28 Apr 2012, 08:03 AM
The real wildcard, though, is standard of living. The standard of living Gen X enjoy now (and yes, I'm a Gen X) is far better than the standard of living enjoyed by the boomers when at the same age. And this costs money.

I think Gen X have had amazing opportunity compared with the boomers. And of course, this has come at a cost.
+1.

I'm generation x. I'm living in my second home. I didn't buy my first until I was in my 30s. Some of my friends bought much earlier and haven't had a mortgage for years now. I don't regret that I didn't buy earlier though as I have travelled more and moved cities and countries, they have a much more 'suburban' lifestyle.

It's always been hard to buy your first home. People that think that gen x and y have it tougher than previous generations are deluded.

It's an easy filler article to write for the press about the apparent differences between generations and the tension this creates. In truth there is much more difference due to the stage of life that people are at than any inherent differences between the generations = the inter-generational arguments are all bollocks.
“You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means” - Inigo Montoya
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genX
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stinkbug
28 Apr 2012, 08:03 AM
The real wildcard, though, is standard of living. The standard of living Gen X enjoy now (and yes, I'm a Gen X) is far better than the standard of living enjoyed by the boomers when at the same age. And this costs money.

I think Gen X have had amazing opportunity compared with the boomers. And of course, this has come at a cost.
Are you married? Have kids? I used to have a great standard of living when I was single. :lol

Now, I get to pay higher school fees than the Boomers or my parents.

I get to pay more tax on groceries that I buy to feed my children.

I get to pay higher utilities bill so the Boomer managers can get their 200K per year.

If I want to buy a house for my family, I get to pay almost a million dollars for the priviledge.

On the upside, GenX got the benefit of greater access to tertiary education, and I am encouraged that X by and large took advantage of that, even though it's unlikely you will get to use it as your job is outsourced to India. Education broadens the mind however, and we will need a new generation of thinkers to sort out the mess the Boomers will leave behind.

Clothes are cheaper because of the change in the terms of trade, so I have some poor Chinaman working to 12c per hour to thank for that.

Opportunities for advancement in the corporate world have been thin to non-existent, so it's discouraged me from putting in long hours, meaning I get to see my children. I often feel sorry for Boomer children, they seem to be the abandoned generation.

So yeah, swings and roundabouts. But that's the past. Future generations are still yet to receive the bill the Boomers rung up for their two decade long party, and part of paying off that invoice will be lower standards of living for everybody.
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themoops
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Computers are relatively cheap. That's about it. And the build quality of them is garbage. They last about 5 years.

The quality of most stuff is rubbish and you have to replace it soon after.

Boomers had it far better, in every way.

The only way we have it better is with tech, with computer games and the internet and lots of choice with food.

stinkbug omosessuale


Frank Castle is a liar and a criminal. He will often deliberately take people out of context and use straw man arguments.
Frank finally and unintentionally gives it up and admits he got where he is, primarily via dumb luck!
See here
Property will be 50-70% off by 2016.
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genX
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barns
28 Apr 2012, 08:28 AM
In truth there is much more difference due to the stage of life that people are at than any inherent differences between the generations = the inter-generational arguments are all bollocks.
Agreed, with one expansion to that statement. The difference is due to the stage of life one is in, in the economic environment in which you go through that life-stage.

Much like investing, where taking a large hit to your asset values has a much greater effect on your wealth just before retirement than it does when you are in your 20s, going through your highest earnings life-cycle in a recessionary or high tax environment has a massive effect on your wealth, as it affects your disposable and investable income.

The key here is: invest accordingly. If the economic environment is very different for your current life-stage than for past generations, you need to take different actions from those generations to protect your wealth. If asset values such as equities and property are going into decline, then it doesn't make sense to invest in them. If you are in a high inflation environment, it makes sense to get out of cash. In a high unemployment environment, it makes more sense to invest in your vegetable garden than it does in your skills.
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Sydneyite
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genX
28 Apr 2012, 10:25 AM
Are you married? Have kids? I used to have a great standard of living when I was single. :lol
I am "early" Gen X just like you, and I am married and have kids - I have enjoyed an awesome standard of living both before and after I got married. Far better in so many respects than my parents. They never even traveled o/s until their mid 30s, post kids, house etc, and didn't buy a brand new car for the first time until the 90s - and that was the case for all my boomer uncle / aunts etc as well.

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Now, I get to pay higher school fees than the Boomers or my parents.[
In wage relative terms I bet private school fees are just the same now as for the Boomers. Anyway, did your boomer parents send you to private school? Could they afford that? Or is that something that as a GenX-er you have decided your kids are now worthy of? I know my parents could not afford to send us to private school, despite owning a "cheap" house they were "lucky enough" to have bought in the 60s.

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I get to pay more tax on groceries that I buy to feed my children. I get to pay higher utilities bill so the Boomer managers can get their 200K per year.

But over-all you actually spend a significantly smaller proportion of your income on food and groceries than the boomers did. Utilities might now be more expensive, but that's only in the past 3-4 years. They were silly cheap up to that point for everyone.

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If I want to buy a house for my family, I get to pay almost a million dollars for the privilege.
Well as a proportion of your disposable income, ie the money you have after paying for the essentials to live, it actually would cost you about that same as for most boomers in their time to buy and pay off a house. Of course being early Gen-X, you could have bought a house anytime since the early - mid 90s (lie myself and MANY gen-Xers did), and then you wouldn't be whining about house prices at all.

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On the upside, GenX got the benefit of greater access to tertiary education, and I am encouraged that X by and large took advantage of that, even though it's unlikely you will get to use it as your job is outsourced to India. Education broadens the mind however, and we will need a new generation of thinkers to sort out the mess the Boomers will leave behind.

Clothes are cheaper because of the change in the terms of trade, so I have some poor Chinaman working to 12c per hour to thank for that.

Opportunities for advancement in the corporate world have been thin to non-existent, so it's discouraged me from putting in long hours, meaning I get to see my children. I often feel sorry for Boomer children, they seem to be the abandoned generation.
Education for Gen-X has been a BIGGY - especially for women. Like any any group of people, the successful people learn how to leverage and take advantage of the education to advance their careers and income. Sounds like you have struggled to do that. I haven't. Why is that I wonder? It can't be generational, as we are of the same generation? Indian outsourcing and all that is just a fad - you have to adapt as things change and work out how to take advantage of the various trends in industries you gain experience in. It's interesting that you seem to think the way to advance in the "corporate world" is to "put in long hours", which you haven't been prepared to

And yes clothes are another thing that are much cheaper for us than for the Boomers in their time. There are many other things you haven't mentioned like consumer electronics (TVs, stereos etc), cars, loads and loads of stuff that are WAY cheaper today for us than they were for the boomers.

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So yeah, swings and roundabouts. But that's the past. Future generations are still yet to receive the bill the Boomers rung up for their two decade long party, and part of paying off that invoice will be lower standards of living for everybody.
Maybe, maybe not.

I think there are definitely two distinct groups in Gen-X. One group partied very hard, traveled o/s in their 20s and just mucked around (vs doing it later and earning serious big bucks in your profession), saved little, consumed everything, rented, never bought property and so on. The other group, while still enjoying what life now had to offer, were a bit more career minded and investment focused, often putting off travel and other cool things until a little later once more established financially. This group bought houses from the early 90s to the early 00's and are now enjoying the fruits of these decisions. Many in the first group are now a little bitter about the outcomes from their life choices - the fable of the grasshooper and the ants always comes to mind! :-)


Edited by Sydneyite, 28 Apr 2012, 01:30 PM.
For Aussie property bears, "denial", is not just a long river in North Africa.....
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