My point is that it's useless finger pointing or demonising. History is full of examples of that and in every case it has achieved nothing constructive. People are people and they react to situations, although they can't often control situations.
My point is that it's useless finger pointing or demonising. History is full of examples of that and in every case it has achieved nothing constructive. People are people and they react to situations, although they can't often control situations.
Agreed by me also.
Generations develop shared tendencies because of shared experiences.
The main reason is likely to be simply that there is not really any median wage data available.
Not true.
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I think you are talking about PAYG with-holding tax? You clearly don't run a business, because if you did you would know that the ATO is only given a total monthly lump sum payment of all PAYG witholding for all employee's of a business, and there is no other information provided, such as number of staff, the actually wages earned on an individual basis etc.
The Gross and Tax Withheld is submitted. That's enough to make calculating the average trivial. The median is a little harder, but not much.
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There is an individual group certificate issued each year via the ATO, but relying on that would mean you could only get wage data once a year - not good enough.
Annual is good enough. But lets go with your assertion that it isn't. It is fairly trivial to calculate the new median from group tax submissions. It involves a little algebra, a little numeric method and some computing power[1]. Three things the ABS has in abundance. I'm guessing your 'Higher Education' was in the Arts[2], not the Sciences?
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Anyway if you are such an expert maybe you should get a job at the ABS and sort everything out for them?
It took me about 30 minutes to do the math and work out the algorithm to run against their database. I have no doubt that the boffins at the ABS could do it in 15 minutes. The question is, why don't they?
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OK - whatever. Wake me when you can point to a good source of median wage data and we can change the world.
If I had access to the raw data (group tax submissions) and historical returns, I could write some software in a day or two that would give a very good approximation (90% confidence). However, the ABS does have access to the data, and could easily do the same calculations, and yet they don't. I personally find that very telling, but I guess you accept it at face value.
But the IMPORTANT POINT HERE is that the AVERAGE wage is a useless measure[3]. In a Banana Republic, the AVERAGE wage increases every year, and yet 80-90% of the population go backwards. This is because in a Banana Republic, the top 10-20% pay themselves more each year, while forcing down the wages of everyone else. This is exactly what is happening in Oz right now Dorothy. To mangle my metaphors even more, perhaps you should come down from your ivory tower and see how the Morlocks are doing once in a while.
[1] Algebra is based on average rates of tax paid in each bracket, weighted as a proportion of the total. Numeric method involves approximating the movement of the median based on the new gross/tax. Computing power is required for sampling historical returns from the previous tax year to approximate the new weightings.
[2] Just for fun, some wild guesses at what you read at University (1) Political Science (2) Psychology (3) Early Childhood Development at Macquarie University.
[3] It is said that a man with his head in an oven and his feet in a bucket of ice water, ON AVERAGE, feels comfortably warm.
[lots of discussion about means and medians and how you can work them out from Group Certificates]
Hmm. Group certificates don't give adequate information to derive income, since many people have multiple income sources, and some income is not salary anyhow.
You could work it out on an individual basis from tax filings I guess, but still not so simple.
And the most useful number would be the median *household* income rather than individual income, which adds some complexity.
FWIW, when I was trolling through some ABS data a while back, I did see some income data that quoted both Median and Average income. from memory the median income was about $5k lower than the average income. Median income does seem harder to find than average income.
If you are dealing with data series and trends, it doesn't matter much which one you use, as long as long as you are consistent with what you use.
UNLESS the Geni coefficient changes appreciably.
That same ABS study I was looking at also had the Australian GENI coefficient and I was rather surprised to see that (a) it didn't change much over the period covered (1990-2010?), and (b) it moved in both directions. Things seemed to get "unfairer" in the good times and move back towards a more egalitarian distribution in times of economic stress. Not what I had been led to believe at all.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
You could work it out on an individual basis from tax filings I guess, but still not so simple.
Computationally intensive, but still simple.
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That same ABS study I was looking at also had the Australian GENI coefficient and I was rather surprised to see that (a) it didn't change much over the period covered (1990-2010?), and (b) it moved in both directions. Things seemed to get "unfairer" in the good times and move back towards a more egalitarian distribution in times of economic stress. Not what I had been led to believe at all.
Actually I think that is pretty common worldwide. In much the same way that democratic freedom increases in Petrostates when the price of oil goes down. The Geni coefficient improved in Indonesia in the decade following the currency crisis.
As a general rule, 80% of the wealth flows to 20% of the people in good times and bad. However in good times, that 80% increases in notional size. I speculate the reason for this is; (1) In good times, the government lowers taxes in the top income brackets, because they are collecting more taxes in notional terms. Conversely, in 'bad times' there are Keynesian concessions for the middle class, and taxes on the rich are more rigorously enforced. (2) In good times, credit expands (particularly consumer credit) which tends to have the effect of the bottom quartiles supplementing their income with cheap debt, and so they tend not to engage in industrial action. In bad times industrial action rises because they are drowning in debt from the previous cycle.
Generations develop shared tendencies because of shared experiences.
I disagree. The WW2 gen didn't and wouldn't have done it, that I can almost guarantee. They had a sense of solidarity and respect for one's country and they believed in taking care of their own, a fair day's work for fair pay, they loathed slime like property "investors" and spruikers and the like.
Gen Y, almost definitely. They had basically no social conscience other than a few having off the shelf rubbish from the chardonnay socialist left. Although I think they may be improving given that they're probably waking up to what they have to deal with for the rest of their lives if prices don't go down.
Gen X, the younger lot, no, too much like Gen Y, bunch of complete sluts, the older Gen X, maybe, they tend to have honour and ethics in my experience. However they weren't in power at the time.
stinkbug omosessuale Frank Castle is a liar and a criminal. He will often deliberately take people out of context and use straw man arguments. Frank finally and unintentionally gives it up and admits he got where he is, primarily via dumb luck! See here Property will be 50-70% off by 2016.
I disagree. The WW2 gen didn't and wouldn't have done it, that I can almost guarantee. They had a sense of solidarity and respect for one's country and they believed in taking care of their own, a fair day's work for fair pay, they loathed slime like property "investors" and spruikers and the like.
Gen Y, almost definitely. They had basically no social conscience other than a few having off the shelf rubbish from the chardonnay socialist left. Although I think they may be improving given that they're probably waking up to what they have to deal with for the rest of their lives if prices don't go down.
Gen X, the younger lot, no, too much like Gen Y, bunch of complete sluts, the older Gen X, maybe, they tend to have honour and ethics in my experience. However they weren't in power at the time.
The WW2 Gen were still displaying the rather sad and pathetic British trait of being a martyr, mainly because it was all they had.
Gen X were told they could have everything, but weren't smart enough too see the truth.
Gen Y are spoiled from growing up during a ridiculously prosperous time.
In the interests of debate, could you name some times when young people have had it better than now?
Doesn't that depend on your definition of 'better'?
I reckon the roaring 20s would have been a great time to be a young person if you loved to party. 30s, not so much.
The 50s were definitely better in economic terms for young people. More jobs than people to fill them, peace and prosperity. There was the imminent threat of being vapourised in a nuclear fireball, but APART from that, pretty damn good.
The 60s were a great time for sex drugs and rock and/or roll, so if that floats ur boat, it was definitely better than now.
The 80s were great for the first half, then there was all that crashing and recession shit in the last half.
The 90s I have completely forgotten. What happened? Anyone remember?
As for the naughties, we've got military adventurism, popping bubbles, massive pollution, greenhouse gasses, globalisation, population explosion, food riots, earthquakes, tsunamis, iPhones, youtube, bittorrent, aging population. So, pretty good so far.
The 10s? Possibly war on the Korean Peninsula, more tsunamis, war in the Middle East (again), war in North Africa (again), massive youth unemployment, austerity, powershift, upheaval, more popping bubbles, collapse of the western financial system. It's gunna be great. Get your popcorn ready.
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