Quantcast
Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]

Residex Accurate Property Data

Welcome to the Australian Property Forum. Please register here or log in below.

Username:   Password:
Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 7
2012 8th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey; Australian housing affordability improved last year but remains severely unaffordable
Topic Started: 23 Jan 2012, 01:11 PM (9,588 Views)
Alex Barton
Member Avatar
Administrator

PDF: 8th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey

Quote:
 
The 2012 8th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey covers the 325 urban markets of the United States (211); United Kingdom (33); Canada (35); Australia (32); New Zealand (8); Ireland (5) and Hong Kong in China (1).

The Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey’s rate housing affordability, based on the Median Multiple – that is, the median house price divided by the gross annual median household income of specific urban markets, for the 3rd Quarter of the previous year.

The “median multiple” is a robust measure - essential for the basic understanding of the structural health (or otherwise) of a specific urban market.

If housing prices exceeds 3.0 times annual household income (Median Multiple), it illustrates that there are serious political impediments that need to be addressed, to the normal supply of new housing on the fringes of the specific distressed urban markets.

The fringes of an urban market are the only effectively responsive supply or inflation vent.

If normal supply is not allowed due to political interference, artificial scarcity pricing ensues, causing housing bubbles to erupt – and then collapse – creating unnecessary social and economic hardship and disruption.

In future years, the Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey will be expanded to other countries and urban markets, as more robust data becomes available.

Normal healthy urban markets, where housing is at or below 3.0 times household incomes are rated “affordable”; 4.0 times and below “moderately unaffordable”; 5.0 times and below “seriously unaffordable” and above 5.0 “severely unaffordable”.

The Survey Schedules provide detail of specific urban markets gross annual median household income, median house prices – and from this, the important Median Multiples.

While Hong Kong is the most severely unaffordable housing at a staggering 12.6 Median Multiple (the highest ever recorded within the history of the Surveys) – Australia with its abundant land supply has the most pervasive housing affordability problem (5.6 MM); followed by New Zealand with a small population of just 4.4 million (5.2 MM); the United Kingdom (5.1 MM); Canada (3.5 MM); Ireland with its housing bubble collapsing (3.4 MM) while the United States overall is affordable (3.0 MM).

Large swathes of middle North America did not experience urban governance and planning failure and unnecessary housing bubbles through this past decade. They remained throughout, healthy and normal housing markets (other than some within the “rust belt”).

Normal healthy urban markets through the building cycle, should oscillate within the 2.0 to 3.0 Median Multiple range. Generally (unless there is serious over production of new stock, such as the open market of Atlanta), it indicates a distressed urban market experience severe economic adversity, if it falls below the 2.0 Median Multiple.

The Introduction to this year’s Survey is contributed by Robert (Bob) Bruegmann PhD, Professor Emeritus of Art History, Architecture and Urban Planning, University of Illinois at Chicago and author of the widely acclaimed Sprawl: A Compact History and numerous other works.

Nothing in the world today affects citizens more directly than the home in which they live. And when it comes to housing no piece of recent research opens more interesting avenues of investigation than the Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey.

Given the fundamental importance of housing in all societies, it is remarkable how little we know about the results of housing policies in various parts of the world. In my own field of architectural and urban history, for example, even if you were to ask some of the greatest experts to compare what an average house or apartment unit in any two given cities looked like at some date in the past or even the present, what it would cost to buy and to operate and what regulations would affect them it is very unlikely the individual would have more than rudimentary hunches.

Historians can tell you in great detail about the palaces, townhouses and country estates of the powerful and wealthy, then and now, and at some of the efforts at reform housing by the government or charitable organisations, but at least until recently, the lack of information about how and where ordinary individual’s live has been remarkable.

It was against this backdrop that the appearance, for 2005, of the first international housing affordability survey by Wendell Cox and Hugh Pavletich (a Christchurch, New Zealand based retired commercial property developer and former industry leader who runs the Performance Urban Planning website – Editor) was such a revelation. It provided some of the most reliable information ever compiled for those who wished to compare nations around the world with quite different housing policies. Cox and Pavletich had their own point of view. It is fair to say that both of them tend to favour market solutions to many of the most difficult questions about housing, and how it is allocated and regulated, but their compilation of data, like the data found on Cox’s demographia com website generally, can stand on its own as one of the most impressive and reliable collections of comparative urban statistics to be found anywhere.

Bruegmann continues - explaining how “Smart Growth” type policies triggering the recent housing bubbles, were the primary motivation by the authors in getting these Annual Survey’s underway and that growing numbers of people agree with the Survey findings. And too - that the often “well meaning” policies that created these problems, need to be reconsidered.

Florida leads the way.....

During 2011, following the collapse of its massive housing bubble where prices inflated to double the norm, Florida repealed it's "growth management" law . This has been an important initiative by Florida Governor Rick Scott . Florida has a population in excess of 19,000,000 . Florida’s population growth is now restored and it is currently the second highest of the States within the United States.

There is no mystery about affordable housing.....

Based on the international evidence, Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey co author Hugh Pavletich of Performance Urban Planning , provides the following definition of an affordable housing market –

For metropolitan areas to rate as “affordable” and ensure that housing bubbles are not triggered, housing prices should not exceed 3.0 times gross annual household incomes. To allow this to occur, new starter housing of an acceptable quality to the purchaser’s, with associated commercial and industrial development, must be allowed to be provided on the urban fringes at 2.5 times the gross annual median household income of that urban market (refer Demographia Housing Survey Schedules for guidance on specific urban markets).

The fringes are the only sufficiently responsive supply or inflation vent.

The critically important Development Ratio’s for new fringe starter housing, should be 17 – 23% serviced lot / section cost- the balance the actual housing construction.

Christchurch earthquakes – the costs of poor governance.....

Survey co author Hugh Pavletich resides in Christchurch, a small urban market with a population of approximately 370,000 people on the South Island of New Zealand. Since the first earthquake event September 4, 2010 (near some 17 months ago), Christchurch has experienced over 9,500 aftershocks.

As this year’s Survey illustrates, this small urban market is “severely unaffordable” at 6.3 Median Multiple (in contrast New Orleans where “Hurricane Katrina” struck August 2005, is 3.3 Median Multiple). Christchurch was already “on its knees” in development / construction terms at the time of the first earthquake event, due to a seriously dysfunctional Local Authority that in deliberately withholding fringe land supply, allowed a housing bubble to get underway in 2002.

Because Christchurch NZ land prices are artificially grossly inflated, the small urban market is still unable to get a recovery underway. Pavletich has written extensively on this serious issue – most recently Christchurch Earthquake Recovery: The Political Circus.

The “sorry situation” of Christchurch, clearly illustrates the huge and unnecessary risks and costs urban markets have to endure, when urban governance and planning fails and housing becomes severely unaffordable. Citizens have tired of the bureaucratic “top down” approach and a dysfunctional Local Authority, where there is now growing citizens concern being expressed.

Policymakers, researchers and media internationally, need to research the Christchurch situation, with urgency, to ensure other urban markets going forward, have the resilience, flexibility and affordable housing, so that they better cope with adversity.
Follow APF on Twitter | Like APF on Facebook | Zetaboards Terms of Use
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Alex Barton
Member Avatar
Administrator

Quote:
 
Prices drop but houses still up on global list

Chris Zappone
January 23, 2012

Posted Image

HOUSING affordability improved in Australia last year, according to an annual international ranking, but local real estate still remains some of the least affordable in the world.

Australia's national unaffordability ratio sank from 6.1 times in 2010 to the still ''severely unaffordable'' ratio of 5.6 times, helped by sinking home prices, according to analysis by a US research group.

''Australia exhibited the worst housing affordability of any national market outside Hong Kong,'' the eighth annual Demographia International Housing Affordability survey of 325 markets concluded. The unaffordability ratio is derived from dividing the median house price by the median household income.

Demographia considers a median multiple rating of three times or under to be ''affordable''.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/prices-drop-but-houses-still-up-on-global-list-20120122-1qc99.html#ixzz1kFP8hkuO
Follow APF on Twitter | Like APF on Facebook | Zetaboards Terms of Use
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Alex Barton
Member Avatar
Administrator

Quote:
 
Vancouver Is Second-Costliest Housing Market

By Hui-yong Yu - Jan 22, 2012 9:00 PM ET

Vancouver’s median home price of C$678,000 ($686,400) in the third quarter was 10.6 times its median pretax household income of C$63,800, making the city “severely unaffordable,” according to Demographia. Photographer: Brent Lewin/Bloomberg

Vancouver displaced Sydney as the least-affordable housing market after Hong Kong among large English-speaking cities, as home prices rose faster than incomes, a study of 325 metropolitan areas worldwide showed.

Vancouver’s median home price of C$678,000 ($686,400) in the third quarter was 10.6 times its median pretax household income of C$63,800, making the city “severely unaffordable,” Demographia said in a report today. A ratio of 3 or less is considered “affordable,” according to the public-policy firm’s survey of markets in Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, the U.K., the U.S., Canada and Hong Kong.

Sydney’s ratio of median home price to income was 9.2, while Hong Kong’s was 12.6, a record for the eight-year-old survey, surpassing the previous high of 11.5 for Los Angeles in 2007. Home prices in Hong Kong, Vancouver and Sydney haven’t plunged as they have elsewhere, such as in Ireland, now the second most-affordable country, after the U.S., the study said.

“Housing affordability generally improved in the surveyed nations, though the most unaffordable markets, Hong Kong and Vancouver, became even more unaffordable,” wrote Wendell Cox, principal of Belleville, Illinois-based Demographia, and Hugh Pavletich, managing director of Pavletich Properties Ltd., a commercial developer and investment company in Christchurch, New Zealand.

Policies limiting lots available for construction drove up land prices, putting homes out of reach for middle-class buyers and younger workers in cities such as Vancouver and Sydney, the researchers said. The median price of a detached house in metropolitan Vancouver reached a record C$900,000 in April 2011, according to the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver.
‘Massively Deteriorating’

“The causes of massively deteriorating housing affordability are not a mystery,” Cox and Pavletich said. “They inevitably result from more restrictive land-use regulations adopted by governments with insufficient attention to economic fundamentals.”

The study focuses on the home-affordability ratio, not absolute prices. It doesn’t take into account such influences as falling interest rates, an influx of foreign buyers or the attractions of climate and coastal location.

“There’s no question if you want to live in Manhattan or in a nice, close-in suburb, it’s going to cost you more,” Cox said in a telephone interview. “Demand doesn’t drive up prices. Demand drives up prices if there are constraints in supply, and the cause here is regulation.”
Bubble Bursting

Home prices in the eight capitals of Australia’s states and territories fell 3.7 percent in 2011 through November and were on pace for the biggest annual decline in at least 12 years on concerns that Europe’s debt crisis may damp the nation’s economic growth, according to figures released Dec. 30 by RP Data, a real estate researcher.

“The bubble is bursting in Australia,” said Pavletich, who operates PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org, a website on urban public-policy issues.

In New Zealand, Christchurch is “severely unaffordable,” with a ratio of 6.3, according to the study. The city is rebuilding after a series of earthquakes that started in 2010.

“There’s huge pressure on the government to open up land supply and get affordable new lots,” said Pavletich, who is an advocate for the effort.

From the end of World War II through the late 1980s, homes in the countries surveyed generally cost two to three times median income, according to Demographia. Today, only the U.S. is affordable by the study’s measure, with Ireland and Canada “moderately unaffordable,” at 3.3 and 3.5 times median income, respectively.

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-22/vancouver-displaces-sydney-as-second-costliest-housing-market.html
Follow APF on Twitter | Like APF on Facebook | Zetaboards Terms of Use
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Alex Barton
Member Avatar
Administrator

Quote:
 
Sydney and Melbourne among the five least affordable cities in the world: Demographia

By Larry Schlesinger
Monday, 23 January 2012

Housing affordability has improved marginally in Australia over the past year, according to the Eighth Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey, but still remains “severely unaffordable” due to restrictive land release policies on city fringes.

Australia's national unaffordability ratio declined from a median multiple of 6.1 (median house price compared to median household income) in 2010 to the still “severely unaffordable” ratio of 5.6 in 2011. The analysis was done by the self-titled “anti-urban research planning group” of 325 metropolitan markets in Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, Ireland, New Zealand, the UK and the US.

According to Demographia, to ensure housing bubbles are not triggered, housing prices should not exceed three times gross annual household incomes.

“To allow this to occur, new starter housing … must be allowed to be provided on the urban fringes at 2.5 times the gross annual median household income of that urban market,” it says.

Posted Image

Of the 32 Australian housing markets rated by Demographia, none rate as affordable (a median multiple of 3 or less) or moderately affordable (median multiple of 3.1 to 4).

Seven rate as seriously unaffordable (4.1 to 5) with 25 rating as severely unaffordable (more than 5.1).

The report is typically controversial, with local housing pundits claiming its measures of affordability are inaccurate.

However, Hugh Pavletich, who co-author’s the report with Wendell Cox, rejects the criticism and says the survey methodology is a measure recommended by the United Nations and World Bank Urban Indicators Programs and employed by Harvard University's joint centre for housing.

Sydney remains Australia’s most unaffordable housing market with a median multiple of 9.7. It has fallen below Vancouver and is now ranked the third most unaffordable major housing market in the world, with Melbourne ranking fourth. The list is topped by Hong Kong, with a “staggering” median multiple of 12.6.

Adelaide had a median multiple of 6.7, despite being the major market with the lowest demand in the nation. Brisbane (6) and Perth (5.7) are also well above the severely unaffordable threshold.

“Like Sydney, each of these markets has more restrictive land use regulation and has seen its housing affordability deteriorate markedly,” the report says.

“Housing affordability has improved substantially in Perth since 2006, when the median multiple was eight. However, Perth remains severely unaffordable.”

Each of Australia's major markets, with the exception of Sydney had housing affordability within the median multiple norm of 3 during the 1980s.

The five most unaffordable major housing markets (population of more than 1 million)

The seven most affordable markets are all regional locations, apart from one, the federal capital Canberra, which has a multiple median of 4.9.

The six other markets are Mildura and Shepparton in Victoria (4.2), Launceston in Tasmania (4.5), Bunbury in Western Australia at 4.6, Toowoomba in Queensland (4.7) and Albury-Wodonga on the NSW-Victoria border with a median multiple of 4.9.

Outside the major metropolitan areas, the most expensive markets are Coff's Harbour (NSW) at 8.4, the Gold Coast (Queensland) at 7.6, the Sunshine Coast (Queensland) at 7.5 and Geelong (Victoria) at 7.1.

The US-based organisation run by Wendell Cox, blames housing affordability problems in Australia, New Zealand, the UK and Ireland on restrictive land release policies

“Australia with its abundant land supply has the most pervasive housing affordability problem In recent decades, housing affordability has deteriorated materially across Australia, Ireland, New Zealand and the United Kingdom, virtually without regard to market size or demand,” says Demographia.

“The causes of massively deteriorating housing affordability are not a mystery. They inevitably result from more restrictive land use regulations adopted by governments with insufficient attention to economic fundamentals.

“This occurs even as virtually all governments profess housing affordability as an important public objective. Where land is rationed (by more restrictive land use regulation), house prices will rise. Thus, where house prices have increased substantially, they have been preceded by more restrictive land use regulation.”

All of the affordable major markets are in the US, while three of the moderately unaffordable markets are in Canada. One of the moderately unaffordable markets is in Ireland, with the other 16 in the United States.

The most affordable major market is Detroit, with a multiple of 1.6. Atlanta is the second most affordable, with a multiple of 1.9.

The most affordable major metropolitan markets outside the US is Dublin, with a multiple of 3.4, and Edmonton in Canada, with a multiple of 3.5.

Read more: http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/residential/sydney-and-melbourne-in-the-top-five-least-affordable-cities-in-the-world-demographia/2012012353110
Follow APF on Twitter | Like APF on Facebook | Zetaboards Terms of Use
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Alex Barton
Member Avatar
Administrator

Posted Image

http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/residential/global-housing-affordability-where-australian-cities-rank-demographia/2012012253109
Follow APF on Twitter | Like APF on Facebook | Zetaboards Terms of Use
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Shadow
Member Avatar
Evil Zealot Specufestor

Demographia debunked here... http://australianpropertyforum.com/topic/8368369
Shadow's Blog - The Australian Housing Market
1 - Debunking Demographia. Demographia Survey Debunked. Australian housing is not particularly unaffordable by global standards.
2 - USA, Ireland, UK, Spain and Japan Property Bubbles versus Australia. All confirmed property bubbles had one thing in common... a particular house price/income ratio pattern.
3 - Banks can't margin call on residential property unless borrower defaults, because residential property loans are regulated by the NCCP Act 2009.
4 - Housing is the second highest taxed sector of the Australian Economy. Renters don't pay their fair share of tax, and are subsidised by high taxes incurred by homeowners.
5 - Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.

Parse: A rep's spare spear pares pears, reaps as per AREPS.
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
b_b
No Avatar


Shadow
23 Jan 2012, 03:33 PM
Shadow,

I have not read the latest Survey - have they addressed any of your issues in the latest publication?
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Shadow
Member Avatar
Evil Zealot Specufestor

b_b
23 Jan 2012, 03:42 PM
Shadow,

I have not read the latest Survey - have they addressed any of your issues in the latest publication?
No... for example...

They claim Sydney median gross household income is $69K (the true figure is much higher)

They claim Sydney median dwelling price is $638K (the true figure is much lower)

So as usual they are massively overstating the price/income ratios in Australia.

Still, the bears on Macrobusiness and similar sites will lap it up without questioning the figures.

The same issues that existed in all previous Demographia surveys are still there. Basically, Demographia invents ridiculously low income figures for each Australian city (their income figures don't match any official source). Then they take the median freestanding house price for each Australian city (omitting units and townhouses) to come up with an inflated median dwelling price. Divide one by the other and you have a hugely inflated price/income ratio.
Edited by Shadow, 23 Jan 2012, 03:59 PM.
Shadow's Blog - The Australian Housing Market
1 - Debunking Demographia. Demographia Survey Debunked. Australian housing is not particularly unaffordable by global standards.
2 - USA, Ireland, UK, Spain and Japan Property Bubbles versus Australia. All confirmed property bubbles had one thing in common... a particular house price/income ratio pattern.
3 - Banks can't margin call on residential property unless borrower defaults, because residential property loans are regulated by the NCCP Act 2009.
4 - Housing is the second highest taxed sector of the Australian Economy. Renters don't pay their fair share of tax, and are subsidised by high taxes incurred by homeowners.
5 - Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.

Parse: A rep's spare spear pares pears, reaps as per AREPS.
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Catweasel
Member Avatar


Shadow
23 Jan 2012, 03:49 PM
No... for example...

They claim Sydney median gross household income is $69K (the true figure is much higher)

They claim Sydney median dwelling price is $638K (the true figure is much lower)

So as usual they are massively overstating the price/income ratios in Australia.

Still, the bears on Macrobusiness and similar sites will lap it up without questioning the figures.

The same issues that existed in all previous Demographia surveys are still there. Basically, Demographia invents ridiculously low income figures for each Australian city (their income figures don't match any official source). Then they take the median freestanding house price for each Australian city (omitting units and townhouses) to come up with an inflated median dwelling price. Divide one by the other and you have a hugely inflated price/income ratio.
Catweasel laugh. That a seem a fairly the logical to look at affordable the mouse house by a look at a most conservative instead of a most glamorous. It no more the right or wrong than white shoe glossy brochure with nice picture or bank press release.
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
earthsta
No Avatar


Shadow
23 Jan 2012, 03:49 PM
No... for example...

They claim Sydney median gross household income is $69K (the true figure is much higher)

They claim Sydney median dwelling price is $638K (the true figure is much lower)

So as usual they are massively overstating the price/income ratios in Australia.

Still, the bears on Macrobusiness and similar sites will lap it up without questioning the figures.

The same issues that existed in all previous Demographia surveys are still there. Basically, Demographia invents ridiculously low income figures for each Australian city (their income figures don't match any official source). Then they take the median freestanding house price for each Australian city (omitting units and townhouses) to come up with an inflated median dwelling price. Divide one by the other and you have a hugely inflated price/income ratio.
If they followed the same methodology with all of their surveyed markets, then the results would be the same, and the city rankings would be correct.
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Aussiehouseprices
Member Avatar


Shadow
23 Jan 2012, 03:49 PM
b_b
23 Jan 2012, 03:42 PM
Shadow,

I have not read the latest Survey - have they addressed any of your issues in the latest publication?
No... for example...

They claim Sydney median gross household income is $69K (the true figure is much higher)

They claim Sydney median dwelling price is $638K (the true figure is much lower)

So as usual they are massively overstating the price/income ratios in Australia.

Still, the bears on Macrobusiness and similar sites will lap it up without questioning the figures.

The same issues that existed in all previous Demographia surveys are still there. Basically, Demographia invents ridiculously low income figures for each Australian city (their income figures don't match any official source). Then they take the median freestanding house price for each Australian city (omitting units and townhouses) to come up with an inflated median dwelling price. Divide one by the other and you have a hugely inflated price/income ratio.
Shadow, do you have any idea where they are getting the median income from?

Also, they refer to house prices, not dwelling price, so is it maybe it's OK that they exclude units and town houses? Are they consistent across countries?

Any idea why they would want to skew the figures? They seem to have some vested interest - but I can't work out what it is.
Aussie House Prices blog
Latest post: Real Estate 101 - Lecture 1: Never use the "F" word
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Shadow
Member Avatar
Evil Zealot Specufestor

Aussiehouseprices
23 Jan 2012, 04:12 PM
Shadow, do you have any idea where they are getting the median income from?
In their report, they claim to estimate incomes based on ABS data, which they adjust in some unspecified manner...

'Median household income data is generally estimated beginning with an authoritative source (national statistics bureau data) base for each metropolitan market. This base is then adjusted to account for changes to produce an up-to-date estimate, using the best available indicators of median income growth. In the United States, the United Kingdom, New Zealand, Ireland and Hong Kong, specific metropolitan area interim adjustments are possible from data sources. However, in Canada and Australia, it is necessary to use more general provincial or state level data.'

So they take some ABS state level data and 'adjust' it to estimate city level incomes. Whatever they do, their estimates are far too low.

Quote:
 
Also, they refer to house prices, not dwelling price, so is it maybe it's OK that they exclude units and town houses? Are they consistent across countries?
They are not consistent in this across countries - they just do it this way for Australia because our ABS data happens to only include freestanding homes. Ask yourself this... do you think they only count freestanding homes in Hong Kong... can you see any?

Posted Image

London also has very few freestanding homes - most London homes are units and terraces.

Here's what they say...

'Median house price information is obtained from the leading national industry reporting agencies, based upon the housing stock included in such sources.'

This is just laziness. There are other sources they could use for Australian median dwelling prices. They do know by now that the ABS only counts freestanding houses - I've been telling them for the past few years. They know they are not making like for like comparisons, and they hide these facts in confusing small print at the end of the report.

Hugh Pavletich, co-author of the report, posts on Macrobusiness regularly. I have raised these issues with him several times over the past few years. He just ignores the issues. Of course, no mention of these significant flaws in the Demographia survey will be made on Macrobusiness (or any of the other bears-only sites). And I'm banned from Macrobusiness so I suppose I can't mention it any more.

If anyone here has an account on MB, they might like to link to my post and ask for a response from Hugh...
Edited by Shadow, 23 Jan 2012, 04:44 PM.
Shadow's Blog - The Australian Housing Market
1 - Debunking Demographia. Demographia Survey Debunked. Australian housing is not particularly unaffordable by global standards.
2 - USA, Ireland, UK, Spain and Japan Property Bubbles versus Australia. All confirmed property bubbles had one thing in common... a particular house price/income ratio pattern.
3 - Banks can't margin call on residential property unless borrower defaults, because residential property loans are regulated by the NCCP Act 2009.
4 - Housing is the second highest taxed sector of the Australian Economy. Renters don't pay their fair share of tax, and are subsidised by high taxes incurred by homeowners.
5 - Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.

Parse: A rep's spare spear pares pears, reaps as per AREPS.
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Strindberg
Member Avatar


Aussiehouseprices
23 Jan 2012, 04:12 PM
Shadow, do you have any idea where they are getting the median income from?

Also, they refer to house prices, not dwelling price, so is it maybe it's OK that they exclude units and town houses? Are they consistent across countries?

Any idea why they would want to skew the figures? They seem to have some vested interest - but I can't work out what it is.
They say the gross median household income is more than 50% higher in Canberra than it is in Sydney.
They say the gross median income in Brisbane and Townsville is higher than in Sydney. They say income in Cairns is slightly less than in Sydney.

They say the median house price in London is 290k pounds.
The BBC (reporting official Land Registry figures) say the average detached house price in Greater London is 810k pounds. They say the overall average price including flats etc is 440k pounds and that even the average price of a flat is 362k pounds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/uk_house_prices/regions/html/region10.stm

Do you think the Hong Kong house price Demographia use is the median detached house price? Do you think the median detached house price in Hong Kong is really HK$3.1m?

There was a post on macrobusiness earlier which raised issues like this to which a couple of posters replied. The post was quickly deleted by the MB censor.
Edited by Strindberg, 23 Jan 2012, 05:00 PM.
Housing costs to Income broadly unchanged since 1994 - re-ratified here
The People of Australia have the highest median wealth in the World
2002-2012 10 year house price growth the SLOWEST since 1952-1962
1990-2010 20 year house price growth the SLOWEST since 1950-1970

CHRIS BECKER NOW NEUTERED
"There are two kinds of people in this world: ones that fiddle around wondering whether a thing's right or wrong and guys like us." (Hugo to Gagin in Ride the Pink Horse)
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
hoofarted
Member Avatar


Yawn. You two are like a stuck record. Why do you care so much?

Edit: changed it to read you two, instead of just Shadow.
Edited by hoofarted, 23 Jan 2012, 04:44 PM.
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Shadow
Member Avatar
Evil Zealot Specufestor

hoofarted
23 Jan 2012, 04:43 PM
Yawn. You are like a stuck record. Why do you care so much?
Demographia sound like a broken record. They have released this same report every year for the past eight years. Why do they care so much?

Have you got anything constructive to offer to the discussion? Nope, didn't think so...
Shadow's Blog - The Australian Housing Market
1 - Debunking Demographia. Demographia Survey Debunked. Australian housing is not particularly unaffordable by global standards.
2 - USA, Ireland, UK, Spain and Japan Property Bubbles versus Australia. All confirmed property bubbles had one thing in common... a particular house price/income ratio pattern.
3 - Banks can't margin call on residential property unless borrower defaults, because residential property loans are regulated by the NCCP Act 2009.
4 - Housing is the second highest taxed sector of the Australian Economy. Renters don't pay their fair share of tax, and are subsidised by high taxes incurred by homeowners.
5 - Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.

Parse: A rep's spare spear pares pears, reaps as per AREPS.
Offline View Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 7


Residex Property Market Predictions


Sydney Auction Results from APM and RPData | Melbourne Auction Results from APM, RPData and REIV | Demographia Debunked | Signs of a Property Bubble | Christopher Joye | Steve Keen | Philip Soos | Debt Consolidation | Demographia | Auction Clearance Rates | Australia Property | Auction Results | Macrobusiness | Daily Iron Ore Spot Price Chart | Property Observer | Australian Housing Market | Channel 9 The Block 2012 | Channel 9 The Block 2013 | The Block 2013 All Stars | Biz Motel The Block South Melbourne | Australian Property Bubble | Housing Affordability | Blogs | Gallery | Portal | China Property Forum | World Property Forum | Follow OzPropertyForum on Twitter | Like APF on Facebook


The Australian Property Forum is an Australian economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets, including Aussie house prices, global house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a global house price crash or Australian house price crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is it better to buy using a home loan, or rent and save the difference? How might a credit crunch or peak debt environment impact Australian property prices? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices rise forever as people bet on future gains, refinance their mortgage and borrow against equity, or can we find a more sustainable long term approach to managing the Australian housing market? These are the type of questions we hope to address here, at the Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators! Whether you're an Australian Property Investor, First Home Buyer (FHB) or you're a happily renting tenant, this forum has something for everyone. The forum includes a blog feature, so members may create their own property blog. Members may talk finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, talk money, or discuss Somersoft style property investing topics. Are reverse home equity loans good or bad for society? Is the housing shortage a myth? What about negative gearing? Reverse mortgages? Are too many Australians taking on debt consolidation when they cannot even manage basic debt management? Are they gambling with their future? Were the Australian floods a black swan event, exposing many Australians with inadequate home insurance? How does asbestosis and mesothelioma impact home values? Is it a good time to buy a house in Australia? To find out, keep a close eye on auction results and auction clearance rates, and visit this forum often for all the latest house price news. Our forum members regularly debate and dissect the latest blogs from Business Spectator, Money Morning, Daily Reckoning, SmartCompany, Property Observer, Macrobusiness Superblog, Macro Investor, Macro Associates, The Economist, Bubblepedia, Demographia, Steve Keen's Debtwatch and Chris Joye's Aussie Macro Moments, as well as recent MSM articles from well known media economists and reporters such Ross Gittins, Michael Pascoe, Chris Zappone, Alan Kohler, Shane Oliver, Philip Soos, Louis Christopher (SQM Research), Harry Dent, Mike (Mish) Shedlock, Jeremy Grantham, Gerard Minack, Leith van Onselen, Chris Becker, David Llewellyn-Smith, Chris Vedelago and more. We're the first to report and discuss the latest house price data from APM (Australian Property Monitors), Residex, RP Data Rismark, REIV (Real Estate Institute of Victoria), REINSW (Real Estate Institute of NSW) and REIA (Real Estate Institute of Australia), HIA (Housing Industry Association), RBA (Reserve Bank of Australia), API (Australian Property Institute), and the ABS (Australian Bureau of Statistics).

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. Posts on Australian Property Forum may contain links to other websites operated by third parties. These websites are not under the control of Australian Property Forum and APF management is not responsible for their content.

It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. Australian Property Forum members are solely responsible for the accuracy and authenticity of their posts, including any alterations made to posts. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy