Climate change has occurred throughout the Earth's history due to natural causes, and this continues today.
However today we also have humans contributing to climate change. I agree with that.
The question is, what proportion of current climate change is natural, and what proportion is human?
It is 95% natural and 5% human? 50/50? Who knows? Nobody knows.
I agree that we should reduce emissions, but I think we should do that in order to improve measurable indicators such as air quality, salinity, water quality etc. I don't think we should do it to 'prevent climate change' or even 'reduce climate change'. Our impact on the climate can't be measured, and we can't prevent climate change regardless of how much money we spend trying.
For example, we could spend billions trying to reduce global temperatures, and then measure the temperature in 50 years to find it has risen by 1 degree. How much of that was caused by the billions spent? Was the money wasted? Nobody knows. There is absolutely no way to tell what proportion of climate change is caused by humans.
Climate change has always been with us, and I suspect man's impact on the climate is tiny compared to the natural forces that have always caused climate change. Instead of spending huge sums of money trying to stop the climate changing, perhaps we should spend that money on ways to adapt to the inevitable change. We can't prevent it. We should adapt to it instead.
Seems that you are being somewhat pedantic with this now...
You agree that emissions should be decreased..... all for valid reasons.
Your reasons for this happen to differ from those that feel emissions should decrease to prevent global warming.
Therefore you feel the need to trash their reasons ...
I've watched this bun fight with interest...
It's like watching to green fanatics beat each other up because they disagree with the T-Shirt the other is wearing.
Let me ask you... what measurable changes were motivated by the reasons you cited over the last 20 years (before global warming became a popular reason for change) ?
My point is that I really don't care the reason for the change away from how we are screwing up our air, land and water....
It could be to improve our environment, or it can be to prevent global warming... heck, it can be to save the fairies.... the important thing is that humans need a common acute threat to act... and dirty air & water has not managed to motivate us very much in the recent past.
At least global warming seems to be doing some motivation towards improving our environment.
Therefore you feel the need to trash their reasons ...
I haven't trashed their reasons. I simply asked them what proportion of climate change is caused by humans. Nobody could provide an answer.
Climate change is the wrong focus. Our impact on climate change can't be measured. In order to determine whether the steps we are taking to reduce climate change are effective, we would first need to be able to measure our impact on climate change. But we can't do that.
I haven't trashed their reasons. I simply asked them what proportion of climate change is caused by humans. Nobody could provide an answer.
Climate change is the wrong focus. Our impact on climate change can't be measured.
lol.. I'm sure you didn't think you were trashing his reasons.
I repeat my question... what does it matter the motivation for change if the end result is an improvement to air/land & water ?
You are questioning the motivations of someone standing beside you in the trenches against pollution ... this amuses me as the end result is just division.
That is exactly what the major polluters love.
Still, don't let me stop you.. keep shooting each other in the foot.
I repeat my question... what does it matter the motivation for change if the end result is an improvement to air/land & water ?
It matters because...
1. There may be more cost effective and efficient ways to improve air/land/water pollution if those were the specific focus 2. If/when air/land/water quality are fully improved, climate change fanatics will still want to keep on spending money trying to stop the climate changing
1. There may be more cost effective and efficient ways to improve air/land/water pollution if those were the specific focus 2. If/when air/land/water quality are fully improved, climate change fanatics will still want to keep on spending money trying to stop the climate changing
There may be... but you are being too picky and missing the bigger picture.
But consider this... you are fighting a war on two fronts... one with those who just don't give a damn about the environment, and one with those who do but only because they are electing to believe we are in a crisis with global warming.
1 - There may indeed be more cost effective ways to achieve point 1... but a less efficient way is better than no or little way (which is how we seemed to be before global warming became popular).
2 - you guys really need to pick your battles and pick the time you fight them... if/when air/land/water quality are fully (or greatly) improved... then it's time to fight the people who helped you get to that point... not before.
anyway, keep shooting.... your doing great things for the environment every time you cut the legs off another global warming fanatic... I'm sure all the polluters are shaking in their boots...
I wonder why it is the fanatics who can not see any other way than their own... usually wondering why other 'fanatics' disagree with them.
your doing great things for the environment every time you cut the legs off another global warming fanatic... I'm sure all the polluters are shaking in their boots
I doubt they read this forum.
I doubt anything said on this forum makes any difference at all to environmental outcomes.
I doubt anything said on this forum makes any difference at all to environmental outcomes.
From your post I doubt you can see the damage being done with this in fighting.
I highly doubt you limit your shots of bickering to just this forum.
I also highly doubt the rest of the 'people-front-of-judea' limit their shots to the 'front-of-peoples-judea' to just this forum. (Which group do you belong to ?)
This thread, however, is a nice example of how in fighting between two almost like minded groups can destroy the potential good work they can both achieve and thus, benefit the opposition.
Divide and concur.
Keep up the good work... carry on. Your winning lots of points in the debate of what kind of extingusher to use and where to use it first while Rome burns. :rolleyes:
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