Global cooling is actually not a very scary problem at all. We could definitely cure the world if it was going towards snowball earth territory. Stopping warming is much much harder.
If you are talking about geoengineering, stopping warming is not that hard, at least in theory. Just pump a lot of sulphides into the atmosphere. We used to do it with high-sulphur petrol.
But what I meant was that the impact of cooling would be even worse than warming.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
So now not only are we expected to believe the subliminal message that climate change is unusual and frightening, we are going to be trained to believe:
1. The entire earth being covered with ice is a problem that can definately be reversed or avoided by human technology
Whereas
2. If the temperature rises by two degrees we are all totally doomed
A terrified public is a malleable public. So we have to be headed for the worst of all worlds, of course.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
By the way I am still interested in working thru your Boyles law comment if you have the time to continue.
We can agree to disagree on Boyle's law. But stuffed if I know how you can get any results on atmospheric physics without going back to your basic gas laws.
While I am certainly of the opinion that the special interests and rent-seekers have piled in on the whole climate change issue (as you would expect. They always do pile in on any scarey issue) and am also far from convinced that AGW is the whole story on climate change (the climate has always changed for other reasons than AGW, and sometimes quite fast), I also think that to find that the recent warming trend has no component of AGW would be a very surprising result. It would mean that we have to revise a few things that we are pretty sure we know.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
We can agree to disagree on Boyle's law. But stuffed if I know how you can get any results on atmospheric physics without going back to your basic gas laws.
While I am certainly of the opinion that the special interests and rent-seekers have piled in on the whole climate change issue (as you would expect. They always do pile in on any scarey issue) and am also far from convinced that AGW is the whole story on climate change (the climate has always changed for other reasons than AGW, and sometimes quite fast), I also think that to find that the recent warming trend has no component of AGW would be a very surprising result. It would mean that we have to revise a few things that we are pretty sure we know.
Why do you keep offering up that minimalist definition of AGW that more or less nobody is going to disagree with?
You must have by now typed out the same formulation about 7 times.
Boyles law is just saying for a constant temperature the product of vol times pressure is a constant for an ideal gas
Why do you keep offering up that minimalist definition of AGW that more or less nobody is going to disagree with?
OK. at last. You say you agree with that statement. Thank you.
Andrew Judd
3 Dec 2012, 08:26 PM
Boyles law is just saying for a constant temperature the product of vol times pressure is a constant for an ideal gas
Yes. Exactly. It and a few other basic gas laws and radiative laws underly the whole process of convection, lapse rates, the formation of the tropopause, etc. I guess I could have had a more comprehensive list.
Yes. Exactly. It and a few other basic gas laws and radiative laws underly the whole process of convection, lapse rates, the formation of the tropopause, etc. I guess I could have had a more comprehensive list.
You need to make sure you are not confusing
1. what you call basic gas law which is based on ideal collisions that are not actually happening in many cases
and
2. What is more commonly referred to as the laws of physics.
If you use approximations such as the ideal gas laws to describe a very complex reality and model changes within it, then necessarily you cannot get the correct answer by design or calculation other than by luck, if the modelled influence is a small one.
You are however saying that the laws of physics are saying that the result must be detectable even if it is small otherwise those laws are wrong.
No. I am not confusing anything. It is the variations from ideal gases that make things interesting. You are obfuscating, and your obfuscation and introduction of red herrings actually weakens the case for climate skeptics.
The physics behind the expectation that increasing the concentration of gases that are shortwave transparent and long-wave opaque/grey in the atmosphere creating a warming effect at the surface is quite robust.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
No. I am not confusing anything. It is the variations from ideal gases that make things interesting. You are obfuscating, and your obfuscation and introduction of red herrings actually weakens the case for climate skeptics.
The physics behind the expectation that increasing the concentration of gases that are shortwave transparent and long-wave opaque/grey in the atmosphere creating a warming effect at the surface is quite robust.
I am not obfuscating about anything at all
Once again you have managed to come up with a peculiar statement that has nothing at all to do with the topic in hand
>>The physics behind the expectation that increasing the concentration of gases that are shortwave transparent and long-wave opaque/grey in the atmosphere creating a warming effect at the surface is quite robust
Nobody is going to disagree with that statement. We all know what you mean by it. It is not controversial. 100% of scientists would agree with it - especially as water is overwhelming the most important so called greenhouse gas
The issue is why you are implying there is something fundamentally wrong with scientific knowledge if man is not significantly warming the planet where in particular you mentioned Boyles law
Ie why did you respond to me as follows when i mentioned the medieval warm period?
Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.
Forum Rules:
The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.
Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.
Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.
This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.
Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ
Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy
