miw tries the argument that climate gate nullifies the arguments of climate researches. Essentially saying that a few bad apples in Europe ruins the worlds harvest. I disagree. tand the term narrative and my deliberate implications in using it.
Go back and read it again. I was actually quite careful not to say this, because the sins of the author to not nullify what they write. It certainly doesn't nullify what other people write.
The scientists in the institutions typically work on very small pieces of the puzzle and I would say that most of them are pretty jolly careful to get it right. It's career suicide not to.
It is, however a bit of an indicator as to what is at stake when you see people from scientific institutions massaging the message like that, and it does annoy me that the whole issue was effectively swept under the carpet though.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
It is, however a bit of an indicator as to what is at stake when you see people from scientific institutions massaging the message like that, and it does annoy me that the whole issue was effectively swept under the carpet though.
Maybe you can come up with a reasonable argument, since Judd totally flunked.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!! You are no longer customer, you are property!!!
Maybe you can come up with a reasonable argument, since Judd totally flunked.
Umm..... there is no argument. Some of the people at a couple of institutions were caught out. The issue was dealt with, but not totally to my satisfaction. boo Hoo. I often get things not done to my satisfaction. The problem is exactly what you get when scientists start trying to play politician, and no doubt they thought that the scarier the message they put out the more funding they would get. fair call.
I don't think it in any way invalidates properly-peer-reviewed work by scientists from those institutions or any other.
We do, have a bit of an issue of groupthink, unfortunately. This will probably delay the search for truth.
I think Andrew Judd brings up some good points. My personal opinion is that AWG is a real phenomenon. But that's just my opinion. There is a lot going on in the atmosphere and the oceans.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
Umm..... there is no argument. Some of the people at a couple of institutions were caught out. The issue was dealt with, but not totally to my satisfaction. boo Hoo. I often get things not done to my satisfaction. The problem is exactly what you get when scientists start trying to play politician, and no doubt they thought that the scarier the message they put out the more funding they would get. fair call.
"caught out",
How do you know this? Where did hear this? Fox News? "I believe in flying saucers" lunatic press?
You've followed a thread for how long on the basis of assumptions without making the slightest attempt to verify your assumptions and check the context? Imagine what would happen if the word "sex" was in the e-mails?
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!! You are no longer customer, you are property!!!
THE Australian government has wasted little time to sound out the newly re-elected Barack Obama over his administration's climate change policies and the potential to work more closely together.
An issue excluded from the US presidential debates, the argument over global warming was revived when superstorm Sandy slammed into north-eastern US states a week before polling day, leaving a damage bill some expect to exceed $US50 billion ($A48 billion).
Mr Obama signalled his intention to tackle climate change in his second term during his acceptance speech in Chicago, where he underlined the issue as among his top priorities.
''We want our children to live in an America that isn't burdened by debt; that isn't weakened by inequality; that isn't threatened by the destructive power of a warming planet,'' he said.
Australia's Minister for Climate Change, Greg Combet, told the Carbon Expo conference in Melbourne on Friday that he was ''very pleased'' with Mr Obama's victory, and said he held already spoken on the issue with his US counterpart since the elections.
''I think the White House will be looking, over the course of the next four years, to be in a position to try to advance action on climate change in the US,'' he said.
Mr Combet, through a spokesman, declined to expand on the details of the discussions.
The minister has also been discussing the prospects of linking Australia's planned market for greenhouse gas emissions with California. The biggest US state will auction its first pollution permits this week with the emissions trading scheme (ETS) to start on January 1.
Mr Combet said support for a price on carbon would grow here and in the US as people saw that economies continued to grow despite the impost.
By next year, more than 50 national or sub-national regions are expected to have an emissions trading scheme, covering a combined 1.1 billion people. Based on announced policies, by 2020 about 3 billion people would be living in regions where polluters paid for their emissions, he said.
Next year, Guangdong province, which abuts Hong Kong and is itself Australia's sixth-largest trading partner, will begin a trial ETS.
By Deborah Zabarenko WASHINGTON | Fri Nov 9, 2012 10:40am EST
(Reuters) - For a clue to the possible impact of climate change on modern society, a study suggests a look back at the end of classic Maya civilization, which disintegrated into famine, war and collapse as a long-term wet weather pattern shifted to drought.
An international team of researchers compiled a detailed climate record that tracks 2,000 years of wet and dry weather in present-day Belize, where Maya cities developed from the year 300 to 1000. Using data locked in stalagmites - mineral deposits left by dripping water in caves - and the rich archeological evidence created by the Maya, the team reported its findings in the journal Science on Thursday.
Unlike the current global warming trend, which is spurred by human activities including the emission of atmosphere-heating greenhouse gases, the change in the Central American climate during the collapse of the Maya civilization was due to a massive, undulating, natural weather pattern.
This weather pattern alternately brought extreme moisture, which fostered the growth of the Maya civilization, and periods of dry weather and drought on a centuries-long scale, said the study's lead author, Douglas Kennett, an anthropologist at Penn State University.
The wet periods meant expanded agriculture and growing population as Maya centers of civilization grew, Kennett said in a telephone interview. It also reinforced the power of the kings of these centers, who claimed credit for the rains that brought prosperity and performed public blood sacrifices meant to keep the weather favorable to farming.
ANALOGIES TO MODERN CIVILIZATION
When the rainy period gradually changed to dry weather around the year 660, Kennett said, the kings' power and influence collapsed, and correlated closely with an increase in wars over scarce resources.
"You can imagine the Maya getting lured into this trap," he said. "The idea is that they keep the rains coming, they keep everything together, and that's great when you're in a really good period ... but when things start going badly, and (the kings are) doing the ceremonies and nothing's happening, then people are going to start questioning whether or not they should really be in charge."
The political collapse of the Maya kings came around the year 900, when prolonged drought undermined their authority. But Maya populations remained for another century or so, when a severe drought lasting from the years 1000 to 1100 forced Maya to leave what used to be their biggest centers of population.
Even during the Maya heyday, humans had an impact on their environment, Kennett said, mostly by farming more land, which in turn caused greater erosion. During the dry periods, the Maya responded with intensified agriculture.
When the climate in the area shifted toward drought, in a long-running pattern called the intertropical conversion zone, it exacerbated human impact on environment, Kennett said.
"There are some analogies to this in the modern context that we need to worry about" in Africa or Europe, he said.
If there are changes in climate that undermine agricultural systems in some areas, it could create widespread famine, social instability and warfare that then draw in other populations, he said -- just as it may have happened in Maya civilization.
Human emissions of fossil carbon into the atmosphere and the resulting increase in temperatures may be holding off the next ice age, according to research from Sweden’s University of Gothenburg.
“We are probably entering a new ice age right now,” Lars Franzen, a professor of physical geography at the university, was cited as saying in an online statement today. “However, we’re not noticing it due to the effects of carbon dioxide.”
Franzen and three other researchers calculated how much of Sweden might be covered by peat lands during an interglacial, the period between two ice ages. Peat absorbs carbon from the atmosphere, and the study found that the country’s carbon-sink potential could increase six- to 10-fold, which theoretically might cause a drop in temperatures.
Increased felling of woodlands and expansion of agricultural land, combined with early industrialization, probably halted the so-called Little Ice Age from the 16th to the 18th century, slowing down or even reversing a cooling trend, according to the researchers.
“It’s certainly possible that mankind’s various activities contributed towards extending our ice age interval by keeping carbon dioxide levels high enough,” Franzen said. “Without the human impact, the inevitable progression toward an ice age would have continued.”
The earth experienced at least 30 periods of ice age in the past 3 million years, according to the university. There were no emissions of fossil carbon in earlier interglacial periods, and carbon sequestration in peat lands may have been one of the main reasons why ice age conditions occurred, according to Franzen.
“The spread of peat lands is an important factor,” Franzen said. “If we accept that rising levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere lead to an increase in global temperature, the logical conclusion must be that reduced levels lead to a drop in temperature.”
Human Carbon Emissions Seen by Researchers Holding Back Ice Age
This is an important area of research and I'm glad someone is pursuing it. Global cooling is a much scarier proposition to me than global warming, and it seems pretty obvious to me that AGW is not the only mechanism at work in climate change.
The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. --Gloria Steinem AREPS™
This is an important area of research and I'm glad someone is pursuing it. Global cooling is a much scarier proposition to me than global warming, and it seems pretty obvious to me that AGW is not the only mechanism at work in climate change.
Yes, it goes back to the start of the anthropogenic global warming theory. Arrhenius was the one who developed the theory of the ice ages and that anthropogenic warming would prevent us descending in to a new one.
At the moment we are in a peak warm period, the patten as you can see is a slow decent in temperatures to a depth of a next ice age 100,000 years from now. At that point a rapid rise in temperature would occur again.
We can see this decline in Mann's hockey chart.
In the course of a thousand years the temperature had fallen 0.2 C. But this was interrupted by the industrialization of the 20th century.
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