So you think scientists *should* be withholding inconvenient data so as not to mix the message?
I think when you have so many players on both sides of the argument there will always be those who twist the rules, and sometimes flat out break them. I don't consider an entire argument invalid due to the actions of a small minority, or use it to justify my existence of a conspiracy.
Andrew Judd
2 Nov 2012, 07:29 PM
You seem to be so wrapped up in this topic that you cannot see it clearly.
Why say climate change when you mean AGW? If i am confused by your language how many other people are confused?
Why accuse people of trolling because they object to people misusing their positions to manage a political agenda instead of only focusing on scientificly validated accuracy? Phil Jones and Co were caught red handed attempting to pervert scientific accuracy. How on earth can you even begin to justify that??
What part of when I said what they did was "WRONG" was trying to justify it?
Time to rethink your narrative.
Climate change vs AGW = not the same, but I think I'd be able to understand an article that did use them interchangeably if the authors opinions are understood. You can't, or you figure semantics are the best bet to justify your beliefs because they allow you to nullify conflicting views? BTW - were you ever accusing me of this? I was addressing your accusations against me, I don't think I used these terms interchangeably. But if this is the best argument against my understandings of the topic then why are you bothering?
NotFooled
2 Nov 2012, 07:26 PM
Three-Quarters of Climate Change Is Man-Made An independent study quantifies the human and natural contributions, with solar radiation contributing only minimally
Natural climate variability is extremely unlikely to have contributed more than about one-quarter of the temperature rise observed in the past 60 years, reports a pair of Swiss climate modelers in a paper published online December 4. Most of the observed warming—at least 74 percent—is almost certainly due to human activity, they write in Nature Geoscience.
Their findings, which are strikingly similar to results produced by other attribution methods, provide an alternative line of evidence that greenhouse gases, and in particular carbon dioxide, are by far the main culprit of recent global warming. The massive increase of atmospheric CO2 concentrations since pre-industrial times would, in fact, have caused substantially more surface warming were it not for the cooling effects of atmospheric aerosols such as black carbon, they report.
Similar ball-park figure to what I gave months ago to Shadow. I'm sure they'll find some odd nomenclature within the article that therefore nullifies any data from the report.
In other news: A guy told me yesterday that he had a pistol pointed at my head and if I didn't get off his property he would shoot me. I knew he was bluffing because it was clearly a rifle.
In as much as anyone is, I guess they are as long as they take their collars off. :-)
But you do make a serious point. To some extent a person's public actions always reflect on the other organisations of which they are a member and you can't go around bringing disrepute on your place of work.
It's an old tradition, but Scientist's have doctorates given to them by institutions. Just as with MD's their public image is supposed to carry a certain restraint.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!! You are no longer customer, you are property!!!
Narrative implies i am telling some kind of story.
You were the one who said that Miw was trolling for highlighting the way some prominant climate gate insiders were attempting to promote an agenda rather than being scientific.
It is not my story. The facts do not appear to be in dispute.
THE next United Nations climate report will ''scare the wits out of everyone'' and should provide the impetus needed for the world to finally sign an agreement to tackle global warming, the former head of the UN negotiations said.
Yvo de Boer, the UN climate chief during the 2009 Copenhagen climate change talks, said his conversations with scientists working on the next report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change suggested the findings would be shocking.
"That report is going to scare the wits out of everyone,'' Mr de Boer said in the only scheduled interview of his visit to Australia. "I'm confident those scientific findings will create new political momentum.''
Narrative implies i am telling some kind of story.
You were the one who said that Miw was trolling for highlighting the way some prominant climate gate insiders were attempting to promote an agenda rather than being scientific.
It is not my story. The facts do not appear to be in dispute.
Why did you say you knew he was trolling???
Is there anyone on this thread who can respond without conflating two different stories in their head ?
Story 1: You accuse me of supporting the actions of climate gate. Proven false.
Story 2: miw tries the argument that climate gate nullifies the arguments of climate researches. Essentially saying that a few bad apples in Europe ruins the worlds harvest. I disagree.
You attempt to mix both to appease some prior conceived idea in your head that you can't let go of.
Trolling: Story 2 is almost the very definition of trolling. Assuming miw was aware of the very basic fallacy in that logic, and which I was kindly assuming miw was. Otherwise, it's not trolling, it's stupidity.
It's good to see you understand the term narrative and my deliberate implications in using it.
Is there anyone on this thread who can respond without conflating two different stories in their head ?
Story 1: You accuse me of supporting the actions of climate gate. Proven false.
Story 2: miw tries the argument that climate gate nullifies the arguments of climate researches. Essentially saying that a few bad apples in Europe ruins the worlds harvest. I disagree.
You attempt to mix both to appease some prior conceived idea in your head that you can't let go of.
Trolling: Story 2 is almost the very definition of trolling. Assuming miw was aware of the very basic fallacy in that logic, and which I was kindly assuming miw was. Otherwise, it's not trolling, it's stupidity.
It's good to see you understand the term narrative and my deliberate implications in using it.
Why have you made up a story to avoid responsibility for inappropriately saying that you knew Miw was trolling?
Well, it all depends on the range of outcomes and it all depends on the severity of the action that is proposed, doesn't it? When the political wing your research institutions are disguising the range of possible outcomes and trying to influence the proposed actions, the decisions get that much harder to make. Despite the attempt to sweep the issue under the carpet, the field of climate science has taken an enormous amount of damage from the whole affair and the public have turned their backs.
Quote:
1. you believe it is grossly inappropriate of Miw to make a response like that to one of the biggest scientific scandals or our time.
Such statements are quite clearly untrue. As for the claims about "climate gate" they add up to nothing. Maybe A Judd can tell us what the scandal is? Because I see none.
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!! You are no longer customer, you are property!!!
Such statements are quite clearly untrue. As for the claims about "climate gate" they add up to nothing. Maybe A Judd can tell us what the scandal is? Because I see none.
You obviously think the message is more important than the quality of the scientific manner it gets presented by.
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