For correlation to be regarded as evidence that matters, there needs to be a plausible story connecting C02 to warming.
Is it plausible the Earth mysteriously cooled around 1300 and then definately warmed up due to C02? or can it be equally likely that it just mysteriously warmed up again?
The alarmist C02 story currently requires that it is exceptionally warm and this is unprecedented and it is going to carry on getting dangerously warmer. However, because of the MWP and the little ice age, it seems a very unlikely story to me. What I note is that since the alarmists were unable to erase the MWP and little ice age from the historical record there has been less talk about AGW and more talk about climate change.
The correlation, or lack of, between temperature and CO2 shows that CO2 growth lags temperature growth. If you insist in drawing a causation conclusion it must be that temperature growth causes CO2 growth, rather than the reverse.
Don't look for a unbiased presentation on Wiki. Wiki has been hijacked by climate alarmists who ruthlessly police wiki on an hourly basis and remove all material not supportive of their religion.
Some of the emails written by the lead “scientists”:
IPCC co-author Kevin Trenberth,
Quote:
… where the heck is global warming? We are asking that here in Boulder where we have broken records the past two days for the coldest days on record. ... The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.
Phil Jones, head of the CRU unit
Quote:
I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.
Mick Kelly, Professor of Climate Change at Jones’ university, on hiding recent cooling:
Quote:
Anyway, I’ll maybe cut the last few points off the filtered curve before I give the talk again as that’s trending down as a result of the end effects and the recent cold-ish years.
A CRU programming code for dealing with tree-ring data:
Quote:
Uses corrected MXD but shouldn’t usually plot past 1960 because these will be artificially adjusted to look closer to the real temperatures.
Phil Jones again:
Quote:
I would like to see the climate change happen, so the science could be proved right, regardless of the consequences. This isn’t being political, it is being selfish.
Phil Jones again:
Quote:
I hope you’re not right about the lack of warming lasting till about 2020. I’d rather hoped to see the earlier Met Office press release with Doug’s paper that said something like - half the years to 2014 would exceed the warmest year currently on record, 1998!
Phil Jones again:
Quote:
Bottom line - there is no way the MWP (whenever it was) was as warm globally as the last 20 years ... this is all gut feeling, no science, but years of experience of dealing with global scales and variability.
From Phil Jones to Michael Mann, on the death of Australian sceptic John Daly:
Quote:
In an odd way this is cheering news!
Phil Jones again:
Quote:
If they ever hear there is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I’ll delete the file rather than send to anyone ... We also have a data protection act, which I will hide behind.
Phil Jones again:
Quote:
PS I’m getting hassled by a couple of people to release the CRU station temperature data. Don’t any of you three tell anybody that the UK has a Freedom of Information Act!
Phil Jones again:
Quote:
I did get an email from the FoI person here early yesterday to tell me I shouldn’t be deleting emails - unless this was normal deleting to keep emails manageable!
Phil Jones again:
Quote:
Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise ... Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same?
Ben Santer:
Quote:
Next time I see Pat Michaels at a scientific meeting, I’ll be tempted to beat the crap out of him.
Phil Jones again:
Quote:
Ammann/Wahl - try and change the Received date! Don’t give those sceptic something to amuse themselves with.
Tom Wigley: I
Quote:
f you think that Saiers is in the greenhouse sceptics camp, then, if we can find documentary evidence of this, we could go through official AGU channels to get him ousted.
Phil Jones to Michael Mann on keeping two sceptics’ papers from the IPCC:
Quote:
I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. K and I will keep them out somehow - even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!
Catweasel say a forum really getting a bizarre now. It like a Tea Party freak show with mouzealots thrashing round like mudsharks.
Phil Jones could only have kept his job because somebody protected him.
The game is obviously being rigged in a coordinated manner or the US department of Energy which provides some of his funding would have insisted he go.
Phil Jones could only have kept his job because somebody protected him.
The game is obviously being rigged in a coordinated manner or the US department of Energy which provides some of his funding would have insisted he go.
Catweasel laugh. It can imagine funny little man in Mac overcoat with notepad following scientists.
Catweasel laugh. It can imagine funny little man in Mac overcoat with notepad following scientists.
You are also the one with a notebook attempting to change the course of history.
Why do you keep doing it?
>>Catweasel say a forum really getting a bizarre now. It like a Tea Party freak show with mouzealots thrashing round like mudsharks.
Your presence here is described quite well by your own comment. At every opportunity you engage in bizarre gamesmanship where your main purpose is to dish out as much mud as you can find, while imagining you are the possessor of some kind of superiority.
You are also the one with a notebook attempting to change the course of history.
Why do you keep doing it?
>>Catweasel say a forum really getting a bizarre now. It like a Tea Party freak show with mouzealots thrashing round like mudsharks.
Your presence here is described quite well by your own comment. At every opportunity you engage in bizarre gamesmanship where your main purpose is to dish out as much mud as you can find, while along imagining you are the possessor of some kind of superiority.
Catweasel say ???????
What mouse try to say? That a adherence to science is a "bizarre" and "game"? How is that "mud sling"?
Catweasel definitely not a superior. Is it refer to awareness of limitation and a unknown?
What mouse try to say? That a adherence to science is a "bizarre" and "game"? How is that "mud sling"?
Catweasel definitely not a superior. Is it refer to awareness of limitation and a unknown?
I have no idea what you are talking about now.
1.Strindberg said that wiki was patroled by climate activists who ensure only their message is told to the public, and illustrated how a prominant UK climate scientist was involved in scientific fraud using his own emails.
2. That comment provoked you to provide the following comment:
Catweasel say a forum really getting a bizarre now. It like a Tea Party freak show with mouzealots thrashing round like mudsharks
What happened inside you to provoke you to produce that comment?
Actually Lord Monckton leaves me unmoved as well. He seems like a bit of a nutter to me. Not familiar enough with Plimer to say one way or the other.
I am very uncomfortable with the term "denialist." Name-calling is a standard propaganda technique used by people for whom the truth is an incidental commodity which is only of value if it happens to support their position. "Denialist" and "denyer" are used in order to try to associate anyone who challenges the climate change orthodoxy with the Nazis. As such, I tend to switch off and give anyone who uses those terms a credibility rating of zero. Similarly with "alarmist". There definitely people who deny the facts and also people who distort and exaggerate in order to create the reaction they want. That is not at issue. But strangely these are the very same people who bandy about "alarmist" and "denialist" and they can safely be ignored.
Strindberg
Don't look for a unbiased presentation on Wiki. Wiki has been hijacked by climate alarmists who ruthlessly police wiki on an hourly basis and remove all material not supportive of their religion.
(own bolding added).
Sidenote - I am sceptical, yet undecided about AGW.
1.Strindberg said that wiki was patroled by climate activists who ensure only their message is told to the public, and illustrated how a prominant UK climate scientist was involved in scientific fraud using his own emails.
2. That comment provoked you to provide the following comment:
Catweasel say a forum really getting a bizarre now. It like a Tea Party freak show with mouzealots thrashing round like mudsharks
What happened inside you to provoke you to produce that comment?
Catweasel guess that it entirely possible that great science conspiracy exist. But because forum mouzealot pronounce it, it not the necessarily lend a idea any the gravitas!
Something can be a pure about a science curious. It all not necessarily white shoes of vested interest propaganda. For the example, if it have the interest in thrashing action of mudshark, what a wrong with that?
Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.
Forum Rules:
The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.
Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.
Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.
This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.
Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ
Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy
