Hob - Small household spirit who can live in the house or outdoors in the farmyard. To get rid of a hob, one must give him a new set of clothing (ex: Dobby!)
The next trick of our glorious banks will be to charge us a fee for using net bank!!! You are no longer customer, you are property!!!
I'm really only making one point, and you agree with it - i.e. the climate has always been, and still is, influenced by natural forces.
Any impact of humans on climate change is unknown and can't be measured in isolation from the natural causes.
Hi Shadow, scientists can identify and measure the difference in carbon from human emissions and natural causes. This information is readily available and easy to find.
Ugh! Talk about a subject that generates more heat than light. So far we have seen some highly cherry-picked graphs with dodgy scales which use the same data to try to push quite opposite points of view.
I suggest that anyone who genuinely wants to inform themselves on the science read a textbook on the subject. Until you have done that, you have you have no chance of working out what is dross and what is not on the web. As far as I can tell, 100% of websites on the subject are severely slanted one way or the other.
I can highly recommend David Archer's "Global Warming: Understanding the Forecast". I read the first edition and was amazed to find out just how much the science is twisted in the press and on the web. You will struggle a bit with some of the chapters if you haven't done high-school Chemistry and Physics but it is done at about the lowest possible level required to actually understand what the science is really about.
As far as I can tell, the current level of debate starts with facts and then goes into conjecture.
1. The Earth's temperatures have been rising (with a couple of dips) for over 100 years - since direct measurements have been made. This is uncontroversial.
2. CO2 in the atmosphere has been rising at about 1ppm/yr since WWII and at a rate of about 2/3 of that going back to about 1880. This is uncontroversial. It is also uncontroversial that this is anthropogenic. Some people have argued that it is coming out of the sea, but that's bullshit. The oceans are a carbon sink, not a carbon source. Incidentally this in itself causes the problem of Ocean acidification.
3. The link between the two is extremely hard to prove definitively, but it is pretty uncontroversial that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is linked to temperature. There are other things that affect temperature as well, and to what extent the warming is caused by C02 and what extent it is other factors is controversial and very key.
4. The trajectory of temperatures from here is very controversial in my view. The models are still very crude and there are mechanisms going on that nobody understands. The forecasts from scientists vary wildly.
5. What we should do about it is even more controversial. (a) Go all-out to reduce CO2 emissions? (Aside: conversion of all Coal-fired power stations to 4th-gen nukes would cost about 1% of global GDP and reduce emissions by 35% at a stroke and take maybe 15 years. It *can* be done. Then converting transport to electricity-based fuel/batteries would do about another 30%. That could be done over 25 years at relatively minor cost and the only big emitter you'd have left is agriculture.) (b) Adapt to climate change rather than try to stop it? (c) Geo-engineering anyone?
This is the Global temperature anomaly chart with error bars from the and what looks like a 10-year moving average from the NOAA. It is interesting. The upward trend of temperature has at least paused. The last bar is 2012 and missing the final 3 months of the year, but it is seasonally adjusted.
Hi Shadow, scientists can identify and measure the difference in carbon from human emissions and natural causes. This information is readily available and easy to find.
That's irrelevant to the question. Yes, scientists can measure that humans are responsible for a tiny amount (around 5%) of CO2 emissions, but that doesn't answer the question of how much humans contribute to climate change. Climate change is not CO2 emission. Climate change is significant and lasting change in the statistical distribution of weather patterns.
That's irrelevant to the question. Yes, scientists can measure that humans are responsible for a tiny amount (around 5%) of CO2 emissions, but that doesn't answer the question of how much humans contribute to climate change. Climate change is not CO2 emission. Climate change is significant and lasting change in the statistical distribution of weather patterns.
Catweasel say no to an anti-science. How does it say a climate the change be the "significant"? What is its data set? Does it the understand what a "significant" mean? What is a "statistical distribute of weather pattern'? Can such it even a exist? Sound like mad ravings of mouzealot or somrthing it read in Herald Sun.
I think you just agreed with shadows position (was that your intent?)
Catweasel say it not a even clear if mouzealot understand what a significant the mean, particularly in a statistical the sense. It not a point whether Catweasel agree or the disagree with any of animal groups or sect.
It all about embrace of science and its unknown. Catweasel can frolic in unknown like dolphin in waves. Mouse and mouzealots absolutely petrified of a unknown. Such fears give master total control of its collective skulls.
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