The climate has been changing for billions of years, with or without your understanding of it.
I am not sure where you are getting your info. The consensus on the science is completely overwhelming.
I refer you to the wikipedia page below.
"No scientific body of national or international standing has maintained a dissenting opinion; the last was the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, which in 2007 updated its 1999 statement rejecting the likelihood of human influence on recent climate with its current non-committal position."
And yes, the climate has been changing for billions of years. It reacts to whatever is influencing it at the time. At the moment it is humans. There is ample evidence of this.
They why did you ask what caused climate change before humans? Or do you normally ask redundant questions?
I ask what caused climate change before humans to encourage the climate change alarmists to think about the fact that the climate has actually been changing for billions of years through natural causes long before humans existed. This realisation will perhaps open the eyes of the alarmists to the fact that natural processes are very likely to still be influencing the climate, and therefore climate change cannot be 99% caused by humans, as some of the alarmists would have us believe.
Tyrion Lannister
31 Oct 2012, 09:43 AM
I am not sure where you are getting your info. The consensus on the science is completely overwhelming.
I refer you to the wikipedia page below.
If Wikipedia is your preferred source, then here's a Wikipedia list of scientists who oppose the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming
Since 1998, more than 31,000 American scientists from diverse climate-related disciplines, including more than 9,000 with Ph.D.s, have signed a public petition announcing their belief that “…there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” Included are atmospheric physicists, botanists, geologists, oceanographers, and meteorologists.
So where did that famous “consensus” claim that “98% of all scientists believe in global warming” come from? It originated from an endlessly reported 2009 American Geophysical Union (AGU) survey consisting of an intentionally brief two-minute, two question online survey sent to 10,257 earth scientists by two researchers at the University of Illinois. Of the about 3.000 who responded, 82% answered “yes” to the second question, which like the first, most people I know would also have agreed with.
Then of those, only a small subset, just 77 who had been successful in getting more than half of their papers recently accepted by peer-reviewed climate science journals, were considered in their survey statistic. That “98% all scientists” referred to a laughably puny number of 75 of those 77 who answered “yes”.
That anything-but-scientific survey asked two questions. The first: “When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?” Few would be expected to dispute this…the planet began thawing out of the “Little Ice Age” in the middle 19th century, predating the Industrial Revolution. (That was the coldest period since the last real Ice Age ended roughly 10,000 years ago.)
The second question asked: “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” So what constitutes “significant”? Does “changing” include both cooling and warming… and for both “better” and “worse”? And which contributions…does this include land use changes, such as agriculture and deforestation?
While real polling of climate scientists and organization memberships is rare, there are a few examples. A 2008 international survey of climate scientists conducted by German scientists Dennis Bray and Hans von Storch revealed deep disagreement regarding two-thirds of the 54 questions asked about their professional views. Responses to about half of those areas were skewed on the “skeptic” side, with no consensus to support any alarm. The majority did not believe that atmospheric models can deal with important influences of clouds, precipitation, atmospheric convection, ocean convection, or turbulence. Most also did not believe that climate models can predict precipitation, sea level rise, extreme weather events, or temperature values for the next 50 years.
A 2010 survey of media broadcast meteorologists conducted by the George Mason University Center for Climate Change Communication found that 63% of 571 who responded believe global warming is mostly caused by natural, not human, causes. Those polled included members of the American Meteorological Society (AMS) and the National Weather Association.
A more recent 2012 survey published by the AMS found that only one in four respondents agreed with UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change claims that humans are primarily responsible for recent warming. And while 89% believe that global warming is occurring, only 30% said they were very worried.
A March 2008 canvas of 51,000 Canadian scientists with the Association of Professional Engineers, Geologists and Geophysics of Alberta (APEGGA) found that although 99% of 1,077 replies believe climate is changing, 68% disagreed with the statement that “…the debate on the scientific causes of recent climate change is settled.” Only 26% of them attributed global warming to “human activity like burning fossil fuels.” Regarding these results, APEGGA’s executive director, Neil Windsor, commented, “We’re not surprised at all. There is no clear consensus of scientists that we know of.”
A 2009 report issued by the Polish Academy of Sciences PAN Committee of Geological Sciences, a major scientific institution in the European Union, agrees that the purported climate consensus argument is becoming increasingly untenable. It says, in part, that: “Over the past 400 thousand years – even without human intervention – the level of CO2 in the air, based on the Antarctic ice cores, has already been similar four times, and even higher than the current value. At the end of the last ice age, within a time [interval] of a few hundred years, the average annual temperature changed over the globe several times. In total, it has gone up by almost 10 °C in the northern hemisphere, [and] therefore the changes mentioned above were incomparably more dramatic than the changes reported today.”
Tyrion Lannister
And yes, the climate has been changing for billions of years. It reacts to whatever is influencing it at the time. At the moment it is humans. There is ample evidence of this.
Why do you believe all the things that influenced the climate for billions of years before humans have suddenly stopped influencing it now?
I ask what caused climate change before humans to encourage the climate change alarmists to think about the fact that the climate has actually been changing for billions of years through natural causes long before humans existed. This realisation will perhaps open the eyes of the alarmists to the fact that natural processes are very likely to still be influencing the climate, and therefore climate change cannot be 99% caused by humans, as some of the alarmists would have us believe. Wikipedia?
Why do you believe all the things that influenced the climate for billions of years before humans have suddenly stopped influencing it now?
The Wikipedia article is backed with 120 cited references.
Shadow, your lack of understanding on this issue is incredible yet you argue with an embarrassing amount of hubris.
The things that influenced the climate billions of years ago still do. There is ample research around this that you clearly have not read. Seriously it is not hard to find and you obviously have not even tried.
A good strategy would be to look further than Forbes magazine.
The things that influenced the climate billions of years ago still do.
Good. I'm glad you agree with me.
But I don't understand why you insult me in the same post where you agree with my central point?
So do you also accept that we cannot prevent the climate from changing?
Quote:
A good strategy would be to look further than Forbes magazine.
I also linked to your own preferred source (Wikipedia) with a long list of scientists who don't agree with the mainstream alarmist view on climate change.
But I don't understand why you insult me in the same post where you agree with my central point.
So do you also accept that we cannot prevent the climate from changing?
Shadow, we are influencing the climate significantly. We also have control over how we influence it.
Seriously go and do your homework.
I didn't mean to insult you and I am sorry for any offence. You clearly do your homework around the economics of property but you're clutching at straws here. The points you are making are all completely debunked. There is ample evidence.
Shadow
31 Oct 2012, 09:58 AM
I also linked to your own preferred source (Wikipedia) with a long list of scientists who don't agree with the mainstream alarmist view on climate change.
Shadow, we are influencing the climate significantly.
Define 'significantly'.
For example, over the last 20 years (or 50 years, or 100 - whatever), by how many degrees centigrade has the global temperature changed directly as a result of human activity?
Alternatively, by how many cm has the global sea level changed directly as a result of human activity?
Or give me some other measure, whatever you prefer - i.e. tell me what the consensus opinion is on the extent to which our climate has been changed by humans vs natural causes.
Quote:
The points you are making are all completely debunked. There is ample evidence.
You haven't debunked my point at all - you actually agree with me!
I'm really only making one point, and you agree with it - i.e. the climate has always been, and still is, influenced by natural forces.
Any impact of humans on climate change is unknown and can't be measured in isolation from the natural causes.
It is impossible to show that current changes in the climate (temperature, sea levels, ice caps, extreme weather events etc) are caused predominantly by humans rather than natural forces.
There is no evidence. All you have is faith. It's like a religion. Most people in the world also believe in some form of god, despite the lack of evidence.
Since 1998, more than 31,000 American scientists from diverse climate-related disciplines, including more than 9,000 with Ph.D.s, have signed a public petition announcing their belief that “…there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” Included are atmospheric physicists, botanists, geologists, oceanographers, and meteorologists.
So where did that famous “consensus” claim that “98% of all scientists believe in global warming” come from? It originated from an endlessly reported 2009 American Geophysical Union (AGU) survey consisting of an intentionally brief two-minute, two question online survey sent to 10,257 earth scientists by two researchers at the University of Illinois. Of the about 3.000 who responded, 82% answered “yes” to the second question, which like the first, most people I know would also have agreed with.
Then of those, only a small subset, just 77 who had been successful in getting more than half of their papers recently accepted by peer-reviewed climate science journals, were considered in their survey statistic. That “98% all scientists” referred to a laughably puny number of 75 of those 77 who answered “yes”.
That anything-but-scientific survey asked two questions. The first: “When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?” Few would be expected to dispute this…the planet began thawing out of the “Little Ice Age” in the middle 19th century, predating the Industrial Revolution. (That was the coldest period since the last real Ice Age ended roughly 10,000 years ago.)
The second question asked: “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” So what constitutes “significant”? Does “changing” include both cooling and warming… and for both “better” and “worse”? And which contributions…does this include land use changes, such as agriculture and deforestation?
While real polling of climate scientists and organization memberships is rare, there are a few examples. A 2008 international survey of climate scientists conducted by German scientists Dennis Bray and Hans von Storch revealed deep disagreement regarding two-thirds of the 54 questions asked about their professional views. Responses to about half of those areas were skewed on the “skeptic” side, with no consensus to support any alarm. The majority did not believe that atmospheric models can deal with important influences of clouds, precipitation, atmospheric convection, ocean convection, or turbulence. Most also did not believe that climate models can predict precipitation, sea level rise, extreme weather events, or temperature values for the next 50 years.
A 2010 survey of media broadcast meteorologists conducted by the George Mason University Center for Climate Change Communication found that 63% of 571 who responded believe global warming is mostly caused by natural, not human, causes. Those polled included members of the American Meteorological Society (AMS) and the National Weather Association.
A more recent 2012 survey published by the AMS found that only one in four respondents agreed with UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change claims that humans are primarily responsible for recent warming. And while 89% believe that global warming is occurring, only 30% said they were very worried.
A March 2008 canvas of 51,000 Canadian scientists with the Association of Professional Engineers, Geologists and Geophysics of Alberta (APEGGA) found that although 99% of 1,077 replies believe climate is changing, 68% disagreed with the statement that “…the debate on the scientific causes of recent climate change is settled.” Only 26% of them attributed global warming to “human activity like burning fossil fuels.” Regarding these results, APEGGA’s executive director, Neil Windsor, commented, “We’re not surprised at all. There is no clear consensus of scientists that we know of.”
A 2009 report issued by the Polish Academy of Sciences PAN Committee of Geological Sciences, a major scientific institution in the European Union, agrees that the purported climate consensus argument is becoming increasingly untenable. It says, in part, that: “Over the past 400 thousand years – even without human intervention – the level of CO2 in the air, based on the Antarctic ice cores, has already been similar four times, and even higher than the current value. At the end of the last ice age, within a time [interval] of a few hundred years, the average annual temperature changed over the globe several times. In total, it has gone up by almost 10 °C in the northern hemisphere, [and] therefore the changes mentioned above were incomparably more dramatic than the changes reported today.”
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