Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Reply
Get Up! End Negative Gearing & Property Buyer / First Home Buyer FHB Strike; 40,000 First Home Buyers On Strike - David Collyer
Topic Started: 16 Mar 2011, 08:59 AM (25,070 Views)
sentsie
Default APF Avatar

Sherlock
1 Apr 2011, 02:06 PM
The campaign, is a failure!!

"GetUp's deputy national director Sam McLean says the organisation does not currently have any plans to campaign for the buyers' strike or against negative gearing."

Link -- http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/australian-news/9109383/the-homebuyer-strikes-back/

Let’s test this statement :

“Mr Collyer says two average incomes, even with significant savings for a deposit, are no longer enough to secure many prospective home buyers a property, even on the urban fringe”

Average Weekly Earning in NSW (August 2010) :
http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/meisubs.nsf/0/57AA9D4456266B8ACA2577DE000F7F57/$File/63020_aug%202010.pdf

At page 13, Full time adult total earning for Male & Female is $1415 pw & $1174 pw.
Combined after tax income per month – Tax Year July2010-June2011 (with $0 deduction & $0 Rebate), will be around $4738 + $4022 = $8760 per month.
Mortgage stress : if more than 30% spent on mortgage, ie : $2628 per month.
$2628 pm can pay P&I for mortgage amount of $390k for 30years with interest rate of 7.14% (CBA 2 year fixed).
With significant saving for a deposit (20%), this household will be able to buy house with max $487k . With 10% deposit , they can afford house with max $433k.
With price tag between $433k to $487k, this FHB couple definitely can afford house in Sydney.
Searching on realestate.com.au for property (house, unit, townhouse, etc, with 2+ bed room) price under $500k in NSW gives about 46177 result.

This statement is wrong.

Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
barns
Member Avatar


sentsie
2 Apr 2011, 01:39 AM
Let’s test this statement :

“Mr Collyer says two average incomes, even with significant savings for a deposit, are no longer enough to secure many prospective home buyers a property, even on the urban fringe”

Average Weekly Earning in NSW (August 2010) :
http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/meisubs.nsf/0/57AA9D4456266B8ACA2577DE000F7F57/$File/63020_aug%202010.pdf

At page 13, Full time adult total earning for Male & Female is $1415 pw & $1174 pw.
Combined after tax income per month – Tax Year July2010-June2011 (with $0 deduction & $0 Rebate), will be around $4738 + $4022 = $8760 per month.
Mortgage stress : if more than 30% spent on mortgage, ie : $2628 per month.
$2628 pm can pay P&I for mortgage amount of $390k for 30years with interest rate of 7.14% (CBA 2 year fixed).
With significant saving for a deposit (20%), this household will be able to buy house with max $487k . With 10% deposit , they can afford house with max $433k.
With price tag between $433k to $487k, this FHB couple definitely can afford house in Sydney.
Searching on realestate.com.au for property (house, unit, townhouse, etc, with 2+ bed room) price under $500k in NSW gives about 46177 result.

This statement is wrong.
Good first post. Also personally I question the 30% mortgage stress level, particularly with a youngish couple whose earning capacity is increasing. I believe you can exceed this a bit initially and let inflation sort you out, ie, the first few years may be somewhat tough but this has always been the case for fhbers.
“You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means” - Inigo Montoya
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
asya
Default APF Avatar

Yorke
1 Apr 2011, 11:28 PM
Because precious would like to own in a family friendly suburb in the metro area ? :laughing:

And just so he won't say that he didn't get anything from this forum here are a few links for houses under $100k in just one town alone.

http://www.realestate.com.au/buy/property-house-with-2-bedrooms-between-0-100000-in-broken+hill%2c+nsw+2880/list-1?activeSort=price-asc

:laugh:
Well it didn't have to be in the metro area but please do not send me to BH :wacko:

It's cheap though, any decent jobs there?
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Rastus2
Member Avatar


sentsie
2 Apr 2011, 01:39 AM
Let’s test this statement :

“Mr Collyer says two average incomes, even with significant savings for a deposit, are no longer enough to secure many prospective home buyers a property, even on the urban fringe”

Average Weekly Earning in NSW (August 2010) :
http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/meisubs.nsf/0/57AA9D4456266B8ACA2577DE000F7F57/$File/63020_aug%202010.pdf

At page 13, Full time adult total earning for Male & Female is $1415 pw & $1174 pw.
Combined after tax income per month – Tax Year July2010-June2011 (with $0 deduction & $0 Rebate), will be around $4738 + $4022 = $8760 per month.
Mortgage stress : if more than 30% spent on mortgage, ie : $2628 per month.
$2628 pm can pay P&I for mortgage amount of $390k for 30years with interest rate of 7.14% (CBA 2 year fixed).
With significant saving for a deposit (20%), this household will be able to buy house with max $487k . With 10% deposit , they can afford house with max $433k.
With price tag between $433k to $487k, this FHB couple definitely can afford house in Sydney.
Searching on realestate.com.au for property (house, unit, townhouse, etc, with 2+ bed room) price under $500k in NSW gives about 46177 result.

This statement is wrong.



It might be worth noting, that most families do not have 2 x full time workers..

Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

And they could probably rent the same house for half that mortgage......

More couples without kids, than with kids now....so sad....

Yes get a house and then die alone......

Wealth is your kids.....
"REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Yorke
Default APF Avatar


Rastus2
1 Apr 2011, 11:38 PM

What makes you think that -ve gearing will (or should) be removed for new constructions ? I feel that it would be unwise to do that.


Why should they get special treatment and what makes you think that investors who are currently owning NG property would sell up and invest in the construction of new properties if the NG was to be removed ?
Anyway, since existing IP owners would be excluded and only new (future) constructions would be entitled to NG the end result would be the same.

Quote:
 

I agree that new builds should be given a grace period of -ve gearing so that construction rather than speculation is where investment is directed.


What would be the incentive to construct when this will only increase the available stock and therefore reduce the prospect of any CG ? The government and charity institutions may be able to afford to build a new home and rent at a loss without expectations of major capital gains but can't expect private investors to do the same.


Quote:
 

-ve gearing on already built stock that is 10, 20 30, or even 100 years old has no right to be given the same incentive for Investors as a new build.


they are not, the incentive is already there in greater depreciation for new builds.

Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Yorke
Default APF Avatar


asya
2 Apr 2011, 11:45 PM
:laugh:
Well it didn't have to be in the metro area but please do not send me to BH :wacko:

Why, you're too good to live there ? :lol:
Quote:
 

It's cheap though, any decent jobs there?


There are decent jobs most everywhere if you look hard enough and BH is no exception. You would probably have difficulty landing a job there if you reside in Sydney or Brisbane so it may be a good idea to move there first even if in a rental and get the job first, although at that prices you could afford to buy a house while on the dole and get the job later. :laughing:
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Rastus2
Member Avatar


Yorke
3 Apr 2011, 09:12 PM
Why should they get special treatment and what makes you think that investors who are currently owning NG property would sell up and invest in the construction of new properties if the NG was to be removed ?
Anyway, since existing IP owners would be excluded and only new (future) constructions would be entitled to NG the end result would be the same.




What would be the incentive to construct when this will only increase the available stock and therefore reduce the prospect of any CG ? The government and charity institutions may be able to afford to build a new home and rent at a loss without expectations of major capital gains but can't expect private investors to do the same.





they are not, the incentive is already there in greater depreciation for new builds.


good questions York.

I'll answer in Red. between quotes/questions to keep it readable..


Rastus2
1 Apr 2011, 10:38 PM

What makes you think that -ve gearing will (or should) be removed for new constructions ? I feel that it would be unwise to do that.

York:
Why should they get special treatment and what makes you think that investors who are currently owning NG property would sell up and invest in the construction of new properties if the NG was to be removed ?
Anyway, since existing IP owners would be excluded and only new (future) constructions would be entitled to NG the end result would be the same.


Because we have a shortage of housing, so new builds need to be encouraged.
That can be either by reducing the cost, or increasing the incentive of Investors for new builds relative to old stock.


Quote:


I agree that new builds should be given a grace period of -ve gearing so that construction rather than speculation is where investment is directed.

York:
What would be the incentive to construct when this will only increase the available stock and therefore reduce the prospect of any CG ? The government and charity institutions may be able to afford to build a new home and rent at a loss without expectations of major capital gains but can't expect private investors to do the same.


Ahh... you hit the nail on the head without intending to.

You are implying that the incentive for new builds now is not high because an old property at least keeps the stock levels the same..
The idea is to make new builds more attractive than old builds to someone who is about to invest... that way it's win:win ... investor gets a better deal building than buying old, and gov. gets more stock available to help with shortage.

I understand what you say about cost of new builds... but ask yourself one question... how is it that other countries manage to do this without the overly generous -ve gearing situation that we find in Australia ? Let me repeat, this does not need to be a 100% repeal of -ve gearing for IP's... there is middle ground to learn from other countries and model an even better system here.




Quote:


-ve gearing on already built stock that is 10, 20 30, or even 100 years old has no right to be given the same incentive for Investors as a new build.

York:
they are not, the incentive is already there in greater depreciation for new builds.


Good point... depreciation is indeed generous for new builds... and yet, we have not had a massive building period... why is that ?

Some would say it's not generous enough... I disagree.. I think the problem is that the option to simply buy old stock and speculate on price rises is too generous so why go the new build option.
Edited by Rastus2, 3 Apr 2011, 09:36 PM.
Shadow - Defrauded his Bank ? 2015 I have 9 different loans and my bank had no idea which ones were personal and which were investment. They had half of them classed incorrectly. When this change came in they asked me to tell them if any personal loans were incorrectly classed as investment, which I did, and they switched them to personal for the lower rate. They also had a couple of investment loans incorrectly classed as personal. They didn't ask me about those. So they stay on the lower rate too. Worked out pretty well. :)
Shadow - 2008 Sydney Median House Price 1.25M by 2014-2015

Shadow : I think this boom has already begun in several cities. My prediction :
Peak of boom: 2014-2015. Sydney Median Price: $1,250,000 Bottom of bust: 2017-2018. Sydney Median Price: $1,100,000

Shadow's Original 2010 House Boom and Crash prediction http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/shady-orig-2010-chart.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Shadow's attempt to edit his 2010 chart in 2015 and replace it with one that does not show a crash in 2013 http://s836.photobucket.com/user/rastus22/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-06%20at%207.12.52%20pm_1.png.html
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Yorke
Default APF Avatar


pauk
2 Apr 2011, 11:57 PM
And they could probably rent the same house for half that mortgage......

True for today but will the rent stay half the mortgage 10 or 20 years time ? In 30 years the mortgage is gone but the rent is still there...

Quote:
 
More couples without kids, than with kids now....so sad....


why sad ? planet is already overpopulated ...

Quote:
 

Yes get a house and then die alone......


everyone dies alone...

Quote:
 
Wealth is your kids.....


Not sure if you have any of your own but kids are highly overrated... :beer:
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
Mahamed
Member Avatar
Morbidly Obese

The FHB Strike campaign is "under review' but the campaign "Protecting funding for Medical Research in Australia" suddendly shot well ahead of it on votes and I'm fairly convinced this is a dishonest manipulation of votes by Get Up to get the heat off the FHB strike campaign because they've been pressured by federal govt to bury the campaign asap.

http://suggest.getup.org.au/forums/60819-campaign-ideas/topics/61385-i-suggest-a-campaign-about-/filter/top
Profile "REPLY WITH QUOTE" Go to top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Australian Property Forum · Next Topic »
Reply



Australian Property Forum is an economics and finance forum dedicated to discussion of Australian and global real estate markets and macroeconomics, including house prices, housing affordability, and the likelihood of a property crash. Is there an Australian housing bubble? Will house prices crash, boom or stagnate? Is the Australian property market a pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme? Can house prices really rise forever? These are the questions we address on Australian Property Forum, the premier real estate site for property bears, bulls, investors, and speculators. Members may also discuss matters related to finance, modern monetary theory (MMT), debt deflation, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Ethereum and Ripple, property investing, landlords, tenants, debt consolidation, reverse home equity loans, the housing shortage, negative gearing, capital gains tax, land tax and macro prudential regulation.

Forum Rules: The main forum may be used to discuss property, politics, economics and finance, precious metals, crypto currency, debt management, generational divides, climate change, sustainability, alternative energy, environmental topics, human rights or social justice issues, and other topics on a case by case basis. Topics unsuitable for the main forum may be discussed in the lounge. You agree you won't use this forum to post material that is illegal, private, defamatory, pornographic, excessively abusive or profane, threatening, or invasive of another forum member's privacy. Don't post NSFW content. Racist or ethnic slurs and homophobic comments aren't tolerated. Accusing forum members of serious crimes is not permitted. Accusations, attacks, abuse or threats, litigious or otherwise, directed against the forum or forum administrators aren't tolerated and will result in immediate suspension of your account for a number of days depending on the severity of the attack. No spamming or advertising in the main forum. Spamming includes repeating the same message over and over again within a short period of time. Don't post ALL CAPS thread titles. The Advertising and Promotion Subforum may be used to promote your Australian property related business or service. Active members of the forum who contribute regularly to main forum discussions may also include a link to their product or service in their signature block. Members are limited to one actively posting account each. A secondary account may be used solely for the purpose of maintaining a blog as long as that account no longer posts in threads. Any member who believes another member has violated these rules may report the offending post using the report button.

Australian Property Forum complies with ASIC Regulatory Guide 162 regarding Internet Discussion Sites. Australian Property Forum is not a provider of financial advice. Australian Property Forum does not in any way endorse the views and opinions of its members, nor does it vouch for for the accuracy or authenticity of their posts. It is not permitted for any Australian Property Forum member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor. It is not permitted for Australian Property Forum members to ask for or offer specific buy, sell or hold recommendations on particular stocks, as a response to a request of this nature may be considered the provision of financial advice.

Views expressed on this forum are not representative of the forum owners. The forum owners are not liable or responsible for comments posted. Information posted does not constitute financial or legal advice. The forum owners accept no liability for information posted, nor for consequences of actions taken on the basis of that information. By visiting or using this forum, members and guests agree to be bound by the Zetaboards Terms of Use.

This site may contain copyright material (i.e. attributed snippets from online news reports), the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such content is posted to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues. This constitutes 'fair use' of such copyright material as provided for in section 107 of US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed for research and educational purposes only. If you wish to use this material for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. Such material is credited to the true owner or licensee. We will remove from the forum any such material upon the request of the owners of the copyright of said material, as we claim no credit for such material.

For more information go to Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Fair Use

Privacy Policy: Australian Property Forum uses third party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit our site. These third party advertising companies may collect and use information about your visits to Australian Property Forum as well as other web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, click here: Google Advertising Privacy FAQ

Australian Property Forum is hosted by Zetaboards. Please refer also to the Zetaboards Privacy Policy