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Auction Clearance Rates - Auction Results Manipulated; Auction Rates Fudged by Failed Campaigns
Topic Started: 6 Mar 2011, 12:19 AM (20,291 Views)
Rastus2
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Auction rates fudged by failed campaigns.

Anyone know why auction results show such terrible clearance figures ?

http://apm.domain.com.au/Research/AuctionResults/

Anyone ?
Joye did not understand the functions of the RBA,
Joye did not read the ABS tables correctly
Joyd did not predict the most major financial collapse in the world since the great depression...
Keen can and has done all of the above... but Shadow is still blind to those simple facts, and he claims ..
Shadow
 
For the most part, Chris Joye's predictions have been quite accurate - certainly a lot closer to the mark than Steve Keen.

Love is Blind :c)
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Rastus2
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Auction rates fudged by failed campaigns

By Bronwen Gora and Helen Pow From:The Sunday Telegraph March 06, 2011 12:00AM

Story

Up to 50pc of auctions going unrecorded
Agents "don't want to report failures"
Results still robust, analysts say

EMBARRASSED agents are covering up a growing failure to sell homes at auction by not telling reporting bodies about their failed campaigns.

Figures compiled by research agencies Australian Property Monitors and Residex over the past three weeks show that between 10 per cent and almost 50 per cent of auction results across Sydney went unrecorded.

The reason was embarrassed real estate agents wanting to avoid reporting of failed auction campaigns, said leading property analyst Louis Christopher, managing director of SQM Research.

"We are having a very high percentage of auction campaigns going unreported to the reporting bodies, and we strongly believe those unreported auctions are actually failed campaigns," Mr Christopher said.

Joye did not understand the functions of the RBA,
Joye did not read the ABS tables correctly
Joyd did not predict the most major financial collapse in the world since the great depression...
Keen can and has done all of the above... but Shadow is still blind to those simple facts, and he claims ..
Shadow
 
For the most part, Chris Joye's predictions have been quite accurate - certainly a lot closer to the mark than Steve Keen.

Love is Blind :c)
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barns
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We've been through all this. Clearance rates got down to 50% in dec and Jan rates are rubbish - very little activity. Feb not final yet and march just started.
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barns
6 Mar 2011, 06:33 AM
We've been through all this. Clearance rates got down to 50% in dec and Jan rates are rubbish - very little activity. Feb not final yet and march just started.
Master Barns
Assuming you are correct, what are the correct rates for the last 6 months?

They did drop considerably and now you are saying they are on the up again, is that correct?
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Jacks money
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hey just reading the sunday telegraph ... page 11
the unreported auction tale .... anywhere between 10 and 50% :sleep:
It’s not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you - Frank Zappa
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Jacks money
6 Mar 2011, 07:44 AM
hey just reading the sunday telegraph ... page 11
the unreported auction tale .... anywhere between 10 and 50% :sleep:


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/auction-rates-fudged-by-campaigns/story-fn6b3v4f-1226016445004

The weekend auction clearance rate was 61- 65 per cent. Source: HWT Image Library
EMBARRASSED agents are covering up a growing failure to sell homes at auction by not telling reporting bodies about their failed campaigns.

Figures compiled by research agencies Australian Property Monitors and Residex over the past three weeks show that between 10 per cent and almost 50 per cent of auction results across Sydney went unrecorded.

The reason was embarrassed real estate agents wanting to avoid reporting of failed auction campaigns, said leading property analyst Louis Christopher, managing director of SQM Research.

"We are having a very high percentage of auction campaigns going unreported to the reporting bodies, and we strongly believe those unreported auctions are actually failed campaigns," Mr Christopher said.

Sydney clearance rates from last Saturday were recorded at between 61 per cent and 65 per cent by leading data property collection agencies. But the true figure is far worse.


Related Coverage
Find the sales option that works for you Herald Sun, 18 Feb 2011
Auctions regain their momentum Adelaide Now, 18 Feb 2011
More auctions, but sales hammered Adelaide Now, 30 Dec 2010
Market ends year on strong note Herald Sun, 19 Dec 2010
Auction website sells homes online Perth Now, 23 Nov 2010

Director of Sydney's largest independent auction house Damian Cooley of Cooley Auctions strongly agreed.

He said agents avoided calls by data collection agencies to stop properties that passed in being recorded in data base and newspaper listings.

"In the vast majority of cases, the results that don't get reported were either withdrawn or passed in, and the agents don't want those results reported the next day," he said.

Cooley Auctions had a 51 per cent clearance rate for its 76 auctions last Saturday, the busiest day of the 2011 selling season so far, compared to APM's 65 per cent clearance rate for the day.

"Ours is 100 per cent accurate as we represented 12.2 per cent of the market on that day, so I find it hard to believe there's a 14 per cent difference across the market," Mr Cooley said.

Cooley Auctions also recorded a lower clearance rate of 55 per cent for the entire month of February than APM's 62 per cent.

Under-reporting can make property prices seem more buoyant than they are.

But buyers should not be using only clearance rates to gauge the state of the market, experts said.

What's more, the current flatter market in which buyers were holding back at auction was generally forcing prices lower than last year, Mr Cooley said.

"Lower prices are being achieved this year in most cases," Mr Cooley said. "The great side of that is that there'll be brilliant buying opportunities over the next quarter of the year as there's quite a bit of property on the market. In February this year, we did 306 auctions, whereas last year, we did 183 -- an increase of 67 per cent."

APM senior economist Andrew Wilson confirmed some agents did not report their results on purpose, but denied that the market was flailing.

"Our data confirms that while there is not a boom, there is a sense of recovery," Mr Wilson said.

"Auction clearance rates are reasonably robust.

"There are spot sales and anecdotal evidence that vendors are getting better results than expected and buyers are still active and competitive."

Residex had almost 20 per cent of auction results go unreported last Saturday.

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Marcus59
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The Agents are fudging the figures..
http://www.news.com.au/money/auction-rates-fudged-by-failed-campaigns/story-e6frfmci-1226016477643

OMG... Do you mean to say that Real Estate Agents aren't telling the truth? Well, I guess its not a lie if you don't actually tell anyone your auctions are falling flat on their arse. :cool:
Edited by Marcus59, 6 Mar 2011, 08:04 AM.
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Shadow
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Evil Zealot Specufestor

The real question is whether or not there are more 'unreporteds' today than there were a few months ago when initial reported auction clearance rates in Sydney and Melbourne were under 50%. If the percentage of 'unreporteds' is consistent through the years, then auction clearance rates have still risen from their lows last year, regardless of the underlying 'true/final/revised' clearance rate figure.

Louis - do you have data (a chart) on the percentage of 'unreporteds' over time?
Edited by Shadow, 6 Mar 2011, 08:40 AM.
Shadow's Blog - The Australian Housing Market
1 - Debunking Demographia. Demographia Survey Debunked. Australian housing is not particularly unaffordable by global standards.
2 - USA, Ireland, UK, Spain and Japan Property Bubbles versus Australia. All confirmed property bubbles had one thing in common... a particular house price/income ratio pattern.
3 - Banks can't margin call on residential property unless borrower defaults, because residential property loans are regulated by the NCCP Act 2009.
4 - Housing is the second highest taxed sector of the Australian Economy. Renters don't pay their fair share of tax, and are subsidised by high taxes incurred by homeowners.
5 - Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.

Parse: A rep's spare spear pares pears, reaps as per AREPS.
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rizzi
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Auction results this week? Usually it gets available end of Saturday but seems not uploaded yet??
Edited by rizzi, 6 Mar 2011, 09:40 AM.
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Shadow
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Rastus2
6 Mar 2011, 12:19 AM

anyone know why apm.domain.com.au auction results show such terrible clearance figures ?
Because that's how low clearance rates got down to late last year (when house prices were generally falling slightly).

Clearance rates have since risen from those lows, and note my comment from the other thread about the unreported figures...

Quote:
 
The real question is whether or not there are more 'unreporteds' today than there were a few months ago when initial reported auction clearance rates in Sydney and Melbourne were under 50%. If the percentage of 'unreporteds' is consistent through the years, then auction clearance rates have still risen from their lows last year, regardless of the underlying 'true/final/revised' clearance rate figure.

Louis - do you have data (a chart) on the percentage of 'unreporteds' over time?
Shadow's Blog - The Australian Housing Market
1 - Debunking Demographia. Demographia Survey Debunked. Australian housing is not particularly unaffordable by global standards.
2 - USA, Ireland, UK, Spain and Japan Property Bubbles versus Australia. All confirmed property bubbles had one thing in common... a particular house price/income ratio pattern.
3 - Banks can't margin call on residential property unless borrower defaults, because residential property loans are regulated by the NCCP Act 2009.
4 - Housing is the second highest taxed sector of the Australian Economy. Renters don't pay their fair share of tax, and are subsidised by high taxes incurred by homeowners.
5 - Epic Fail! Steve Keen's Bad Calls and Predictions.

Parse: A rep's spare spear pares pears, reaps as per AREPS.
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Alex Barton
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Threads merged. This is a good place to keep all discussion about the auction clearance rates.
Edited by Alex Barton, 6 Mar 2011, 08:52 AM.
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Sunder
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Quote:
 

* Up to 50pc of auctions going unrecorded
* Agents "don't want to report failures"
* Results still robust, analysts say

EMBARRASSED agents are covering up a growing failure to sell homes at auction by not telling reporting bodies about their failed campaigns.

Figures compiled by research agencies Australian Property Monitors and Residex over the past three weeks show that between 10 per cent and almost 50 per cent of auction results across Sydney went unrecorded.

The reason was embarrassed real estate agents wanting to avoid reporting of failed auction campaigns, said leading property analyst Louis Christopher, managing director of SQM Research.

"We are having a very high percentage of auction campaigns going unreported to the reporting bodies, and we strongly believe those unreported auctions are actually failed campaigns," Mr Christopher said.

Sydney clearance rates from last Saturday were recorded at between 61 per cent and 65 per cent by leading data property collection agencies. But the true figure is far worse.

Director of Sydney's largest independent auction house Damian Cooley of Cooley Auctions strongly agreed.

He said agents avoided calls by data collection agencies to stop properties that passed in being recorded in data base and newspaper listings.

"In the vast majority of cases, the results that don't get reported were either withdrawn or passed in, and the agents don't want those results reported the next day," he said.

Cooley Auctions had a 51 per cent clearance rate for its 76 auctions last Saturday, the busiest day of the 2011 selling season so far, compared to APM's 65 per cent clearance rate for the day.

"Ours is 100 per cent accurate as we represented 12.2 per cent of the market on that day, so I find it hard to believe there's a 14 per cent difference across the market," Mr Cooley said.

Cooley Auctions also recorded a lower clearance rate of 55 per cent for the entire month of February than APM's 62 per cent.

Under-reporting can make property prices seem more buoyant than they are.

But buyers should not be using only clearance rates to gauge the state of the market, experts said.

What's more, the current flatter market in which buyers were holding back at auction was generally forcing prices lower than last year, Mr Cooley said.

"Lower prices are being achieved this year in most cases," Mr Cooley said.

"The great side of that is that there'll be brilliant buying opportunities over the next quarter of the year as there's quite a bit of property on the market. In February this year, we did 306 auctions, whereas last year, we did 183 - an increase of 67 per cent."

APM senior economist Andrew Wilson confirmed some agents did not report their results on purpose, but denied that the market was flailing.

"Our data confirms that while there is not a boom, there is a sense of recovery," Mr Wilson said.

"Auction clearance rates are reasonably robust.

"There are spot sales and anecdotal evidence that vendors are getting better results than expected and buyers are still active and competitive."

Residex had almost 20 per cent of auction results go unreported last Saturday.
Property speculation is a type of gambling... But everyone knows that in gambling, the house always wins in the end.
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Catweasel
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Catweasel say at end of of day, a clearance a rate just a number. Article a express a very simple: Number not what a mouse think it to a be. And a think that mouse make decision on life base on a smoke and a mirror. Goodness the grief. It another perfect a example how almost impossible a informed a decision to the be. Not a care how good a Excel spreadsheet the be.
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Rastus2
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Rastus2
6 Mar 2011, 12:51 AM

Auction rates fudged by failed campaigns





um... mod ... why did you turn two threads into 1 ?

One was started due to APM data not matching other date.

The 2nd was started due to a MSM story...

Merging them is a bit oversimplifying the situation I believe... Also... changing the topic heading.. hmmm..

Fair enough to want to keep them together, but one of the threads is a major news story... it deserves it's own thread IMHO instead of being simply thrown into a bag with my other observation...

Edited by Rastus2, 6 Mar 2011, 12:07 PM.
Joye did not understand the functions of the RBA,
Joye did not read the ABS tables correctly
Joyd did not predict the most major financial collapse in the world since the great depression...
Keen can and has done all of the above... but Shadow is still blind to those simple facts, and he claims ..
Shadow
 
For the most part, Chris Joye's predictions have been quite accurate - certainly a lot closer to the mark than Steve Keen.

Love is Blind :c)
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Rastus2
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Shadow
6 Mar 2011, 08:38 AM
The real question is whether or not there are more 'unreporteds' today than there were a few months ago when initial reported auction clearance rates in Sydney and Melbourne were under 50%. If the percentage of 'unreporteds' is consistent through the years, then auction clearance rates have still risen from their lows last year, regardless of the underlying 'true/final/revised' clearance rate figure.

Louis - do you have data (a chart) on the percentage of 'unreporteds' over time?


Um.. did you ever bother to read the article ?
Since I think you are intelligent then I assume you are keen to diverge discussion away from the general thrust of the article... Agents are avoiding reporting sales more than ever before... that does not mean that they were not too lazy before when times were good...

To simply it for anyone who does not understand what cat is out of the bag :

I am an agent .. I am selling 80% of my auctions... I am very lazy so only bother to report a fraction of those... clearance rate ends up being 65%

fast forward a year or two:

I am the same agent.. I am now only selling 50% of my auctions.. I am now less lazy and keener to make auctions look good.. I now report all sales and avoid reporting failed auctions as long as possible... clearance rates end up being 65%.



This is what the reporter, Lois, and the auction houses are revealing...


Did you notice the comments from the auction house ?

Director of Sydney's largest independent auction house Damian Cooley of Cooley Auctions strongly agreed.

He said agents avoided calls by data collection agencies to stop properties that passed in being recorded in data base and newspaper listings.

"In the vast majority of cases, the results that don't get reported were either withdrawn or passed in, and the agents don't want those results reported the next day," he said.

APM senior economist Andrew Wilson confirmed some agents did not report their results on purpose

Residex had almost 20 per cent of auction results go unreported last Saturday.





Joye did not understand the functions of the RBA,
Joye did not read the ABS tables correctly
Joyd did not predict the most major financial collapse in the world since the great depression...
Keen can and has done all of the above... but Shadow is still blind to those simple facts, and he claims ..
Shadow
 
For the most part, Chris Joye's predictions have been quite accurate - certainly a lot closer to the mark than Steve Keen.

Love is Blind :c)
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