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Mortgage fraud: $500b of 'liar loans'
Topic Started: 11 Sep 2017, 02:27 PM (4,850 Views)
Ex BP Golly
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Rufus
13 Sep 2017, 11:10 PM
If we locked everyone up for BS there would be no one left to turn the key.
You keep calling fraud BS.

Weird.
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herbie
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American admittedly but anyways:

"Mortgage fraud is a crime in which the intent is to materially misrepresent or omit information on a mortgage loan application in order to obtain a loan or to obtain a larger loan than could have been obtained had the lender or borrower known the truth."

With the words "intent" and "materially misrepresent or omit" being important I'd reckons.

Hmmm - Includes (amongst other things):

"Occupancy fraud: This occurs where the borrower wishes to obtain a mortgage to acquire an investment property, but states on the loan application that the borrower will occupy the property as the primary residence or as a second home."

"Income fraud: This occurs when a borrower overstates his/her income to qualify for a mortgage or for a larger loan amount. This was most often seen with so-called "stated income" mortgage loans (popularly referred to as "liar loans"), where the borrower, or a loan officer acting for a borrower with or without the borrower's knowledge, stated without verification the income needed to qualify for the loan."

"Failure to disclose liabilities: Borrowers may conceal obligations, such as mortgage loans on other properties or newly acquired credit card debt, to reduce the amount of monthly debt declared on the loan application."

"Appraisal fraud: Occurs when a home's appraised value is deliberately overstated or understated."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_fraud

Read more on "liar loans" in particular at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stated_income_loan


Edited by herbie, 14 Sep 2017, 06:41 AM.
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Ex BP Golly
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herbie
14 Sep 2017, 06:34 AM
American admittedly but anyways:

"Mortgage fraud is a crime in which the intent is to materially misrepresent or omit information on a mortgage loan application in order to obtain a loan or to obtain a larger loan than could have been obtained had the lender or borrower known the truth."

With the words "intent" and "materially misrepresent or omit" being important I'd reckons.

Hmmm - Includes (amongst other things):

"Occupancy fraud: This occurs where the borrower wishes to obtain a mortgage to acquire an investment property, but states on the loan application that the borrower will occupy the property as the primary residence or as a second home."

"Income fraud: This occurs when a borrower overstates his/her income to qualify for a mortgage or for a larger loan amount. This was most often seen with so-called "stated income" mortgage loans (popularly referred to as "liar loans"), where the borrower, or a loan officer acting for a borrower with or without the borrower's knowledge, stated without verification the income needed to qualify for the loan."

"Failure to disclose liabilities: Borrowers may conceal obligations, such as mortgage loans on other properties or newly acquired credit card debt, to reduce the amount of monthly debt declared on the loan application."

"Appraisal fraud: Occurs when a home's appraised value is deliberately overstated or understated."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_fraud

Read more on "liar loans" in particular at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stated_income_loan


Seems some people Hervbie, are so bent they can't imagine that others don't gleefully partake in this common criminal activity!
Rufus
13 Sep 2017, 11:10 PM
If we locked everyone up for BS there would be no one left to turn the key.
:re:
You write mortgages for a living don't you.

Edited by Ex BP Golly, 14 Sep 2017, 06:55 AM.
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Ex BP Golly
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Rufus
11 Sep 2017, 05:18 PM
they'll even exaggerate the amount they have in their savings account, and they will tell you they earn a bit more than they really do.

But none of that matters a hoot.
How many mortgage brokers share your relaxed attitude to such criminal behaviour?
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 14 Sep 2017, 08:29 AM.
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Tommy
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Ex BP Golly
14 Sep 2017, 08:28 AM
How many mortgage brokers share your relaxed attitude to such criminal behaviour?
All . If they were honest, they would be broke.
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herbie
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I suspect wot Rufus is saying is that While people will 'have a go', there's a system of checks in place that ensures not too many of those who do, get away with it?
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Ex BP Golly
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herbie
14 Sep 2017, 08:58 AM
I suspect wot Rufus is saying is that While people will 'have a go', there's a system of checks in place that ensures not too many of those who do, get away with it?
you trust the word of a guy with a vested interest (derives his living from writing mortgages) , who clearly doesn't think mortgage fraud is a crime, when he says there are checks and balances?

I know you didn't come down in the last shower Herbie!

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herbie
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Ex BP Golly
14 Sep 2017, 09:44 AM
you trust the word of a guy with a vested interest (derives his living from writing mortgages) ...
Wot he writes just pretty much lines up with my general observations. stuff like:

* People who do cashies and consequently have difficulty proving their real income, don't get home loans (or least if they do, the amount of the loan will be rather less than they my might have hoped).

* The youngs jumped through a few hoops to get their last loan (only a few months back) - Forget the various specifics, but it sounded like a bit of an overall pain in the arse to me. (Tho compounded by incompetence and some of the wait until it has to be done until doing it attitude from others I gather.)


Ex BP Golly
14 Sep 2017, 09:44 AM
Rufus "clearly doesn't think mortgage fraud is a crime" ...
I've not seen him write that Golly.

Rather I fully imagine that Yes, he would see it as a crime. (As would I.)

But being a big grown up boy, he recognises that there are plenty of stupid/dishonest tools out there who are prepared to 'have a go' - With that being why there need to be checks in place.
Edited by herbie, 14 Sep 2017, 10:14 AM.
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Ex BP Golly
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Rufus
13 Sep 2017, 11:10 PM
If we locked everyone up for BS there would be no one left to turn the key.


"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

We lock up ignorant women for flogging a few hundred bucks from Target or K-Mart (at $85,000 pa prison costs- let alone policing and court costs), so should lock up people who commit mortgage fraud.


Edited by Ex BP Golly, 14 Sep 2017, 10:08 AM.
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Rufus
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Ex BP Golly
14 Sep 2017, 10:04 AM


"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

We lock up ignorant women for flogging a few hundred bucks from Target or K-Mart (at $85,000 pa prison costs- let alone policing and court costs), so should lock up people who commit mortgage fraud.

Men kid themselves about the size of their penis, women think that they are prettier than they really are and if they are looking for love on line they will put up a nice 10 year old photo of themselves.

If I ask someone the value of their house which they think is worth $580,000 they will say "about $600,000"

And so it goes - everyone spins a bit of BS, it's not a crime and nor is it a crime to not know the exact value of something or even the exact annual income you are on - if you say you earn about $65,000 and it turns out to be $62,650 how is that a crime.

You are incredibly stupid if you don't understand human nature, or consider that banks have ways of finding out the true value of assets that are taken into account when evaluating a loan application. Most people are pretty close, but when they do err it's usually on the high side, and that is why all details that matter are thoroughly checked.

But don't let facts get in your way, please get straight back into your petty little ad hominin that make you look like a child who just dropped his lolly in the dirt.
Edited by Rufus, 14 Sep 2017, 02:14 PM.
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