... NG ... I can see an argument for NG when it comes to building new places ...
Come on Herbie.
It just ain't right.
I don't recall Henry making the distinction between using NG to buy new and used Jimbo. (Tho he could have, and I simply don't recall because it was quite some time back now.)
But anyway, the nation I personally know of that gave the strongest incentives I do know of (tax-wise) for investors to build new was Germany; After reunification - A nation that now has what would seem to me to be an extraordinarily low home ownership rate - Albeit coupled with some (internationally comparatively) quite tenant friendly legislation it seems.
Hmmm - And I have personally had the thought expressed to me (quite some yrs back now) by someone rather better informed on such matters than me with a very much broader overall international perspective on such things than me (with me just being a total shit kicker and him actually being at least 'something of a somebody') that he saw merit in that - Because it meant that all the money that all those German tenants might otherwise have been paying to get the principal on their mortgages down (if they had mortgages but which they didn't as they were tenants), was available to be spent into 'the general economy' - And with it giving those tenants a pretty good 'lifestyle' to boot.
Depends where the nation of Oz just genuinely aspires to go medium to long term with such issues perhaps? (And certainly in Sydney and Melbourne at least???) - Tho I do suspect the answers from our pollies and policy makers just could be seeming to become increasingly obvious? (For those who genuinely care to try to figure their answers out at least - And as opposed to those who just get off on ranting and raving about how they don't approve of how shit is?)
On the other hand more rental supply helps keep rents down.
Buying and then renting out entry level property to people who were going to buy entry level property until you outbid them, does not increase the rental supply ratio because you just created a new family of renters.
And of course, this can go on forever, with each generation retiring on the back of the next generation and everyone who buys a house today will be rich but if they wait six months they will rent for eternity and houses today cost the same as they did 20 years ago when adjusted to price to income or loan repayment to income or whatever and loan rates have never been lower so prices are actually cheaper today than they have ever been...
Matthew, 30 Jan 2016, 09:21 AM Your simplistic view is so flawed it is not worth debating. The current oversupply will be swallowed in 12 months. By the time dumb shits like you realise this prices will already be rising.
Buying and then renting out entry level property to people who were going to buy entry level property until you outbid them, does not increase the rental supply ratio because you just created a new family of renters.
And of course, this can go on forever, with each generation retiring on the back of the next generation and everyone who buys a house today will be rich but if they wait six months they will rent for eternity and houses today cost the same as they did 20 years ago when adjusted to price to income or loan repayment to income or whatever and loan rates have never been lower so prices are actually cheaper today than they have ever been...
FFS
NG has been done to death Jimbo.
No longer especially interested.
With my only possibly potentially pertinent comment being remaining to suggest that The Powers That Be will continue to do what they consider is in the best interests of the economy overall that doesn't just totally exceed all bounds of currently political expediency.
And all while additionally scoring as many 'brownie points' (as in democratic votes) for themselves while doing so as possible.
Oh and PS (just on the off chance you missed it) my central point was: "Depends where the nation of Oz just genuinely aspires to go medium to long term with such issues perhaps?" (As in does Sydvegas/Melvegas become a mob of renters or homeowners - With it really genuinely being neither here nor there to me - Like why the f*** would it be?)
And with "the nation of Oz" these days just very, very obviously being Sydvegas/Melvegas, I can only reiterate, I'm just very, very seriously NOT interested - Except as in to how their carryings on down there just could in some way or other affect me and mine personally.
And as to them, I can only suggest they have a few chats with their pastors or their pollies or their planners and priests or parents and policy makers or wotever - Because as for me, I don't give any sort of a real genuine shit about them no more - Except as in how their screw ups just 'could' affect me and mine ... With another of my somewhat central points being Let the f***ers sort their own issues out. (Eff all of which has especially got eff all to do with NG of course.)
With my only possibly potentially pertinent comment being remaining to suggest that The Powers That Be will continue to do what they consider is in the best interests of the economy overall that doesn't just totally exceed all bounds of currently political expediency.
True Herbie.
NG has been done to death, QE has been done to death.
Heroin for the landlord, Heroin for the economy.
Heroin is £ucking awesome until it gets taken away.
Oh the pain.
herbie
26 Aug 2017, 10:04 PM
Oh and PS (just on the off chance you missed it) my central point was: "Depends where the nation of Oz just genuinely aspires to go medium to long term with such issues perhaps?"
Between you and me, I'd prefer it if the clock stopped in the late 70's when we had half the number of people here and I was driving my dads hand me down EH Holden Station Wagon with a bench front seat and column shift three speed gearbox.
When Yallingup was accessed by a dirt road and hippies really did live in Margaret River.
Between you and me Herbie, we are nothing but a bunch of ants who colonised a lump of sugar. We all fight to live close to the lump of sugar, we raise our kids to feed off the lump of sugar, we hope the lump of sugar lasts forever.
There ain't much sugar left Herbie and there are a hell of lot more of us to share it amongst.
Matthew, 30 Jan 2016, 09:21 AM Your simplistic view is so flawed it is not worth debating. The current oversupply will be swallowed in 12 months. By the time dumb shits like you realise this prices will already be rising.
Between you and me, I'd prefer it if the clock stopped in the late 70's when we had half the number of people here and I was driving my dads hand me down EH Holden Station Wagon with a bench front seat and column shift three speed gearbox.
While I just maybe have some understanding of where you're coming from Jimbo (with me having rather pleasant recollections of walking beaches alone [Oh except for my then GF sometimes] and having no interest in going to them after I moved to Brisvegas where I found them to be EXCEPTIONALLY more crowded - Even maybe 25 yrs ago), one thing I did find interesting is that while a younger family member of mine has vanished into the outermost extremities of exceptionally outer bumf*** to try and earn a decent buck quite recently, she could use Facetime (I think it was called) to remain in contact with pretty much any of us any time (not that I've got a mobile phone - but one of the other youngs popped me on to her when visiting) - With it just being genuine face to face live contact for eff all cost genuinely at call.
It was just a very, very, very genuinely different game to in my days of working away Jimbo.
So while lots of things really are much rather better, others just seem to be a bit genuinely worse perhaps? - Especially for those dudes who continue to insist on living in Sydvegas/Melvegas even tho their finances just genuinely may not stretch to it. (Leastways not in any sort of genuine downturn anyway.)
So while lots of things really are much rather better, others just seem to be a bit genuinely worse perhaps? - Especially for those dudes who continue to insist on living in Sydvegas/Melvegas even tho their finances just genuinely may not stretch to it. (Leastways not in any sort of genuine downturn anyway.)
I don't know anybody who wants to buy who is holding out for a crash before they buy.
Never met anybody like that in my life.
But I have met a hell of lot of people who are totally pissed off with the current cost of a basic essential like housing.
Thinking back, I can't ever remember the cost of housing being an issue, a news item. It didn't need to be an issue though Herbie because it wasn't an issue.
Back in the 80's, for me, the cost of housing wan't a biggy. Rent or buy, either way, it wasn't going to be a big chunk of my lifetimes wages.
Maybe the same as buying a couple of new cars at the same time. Expensive but not a lifetime of slavery expensive.
But back then, my parents were not looking to hoover up all the 3x1 fibros in our suburb to rent out to next years leavers.
And the government didn't chuck money at them to encourage them to do so.
Matthew, 30 Jan 2016, 09:21 AM Your simplistic view is so flawed it is not worth debating. The current oversupply will be swallowed in 12 months. By the time dumb shits like you realise this prices will already be rising.
When baby boomers were buying their first homes in their 20s and 30s, those homes were far more expensive than the homes purchased by their predecessors.
But they got on with it, without bleating and wailing. Often they bought tiny run-down homes with an outdoor dunny in the sticks and gradually upgraded over their lifetimes. That's something our current generation of precious princesses believe they're too good for. Today's FHBs expect the big modern fancy home in a great location straight off the bat, without having to work up to it over an entire lifetime like the boomers did.
The boome rs were also conscripted to fight in Vietnam, they had lower lifespans, the threat of another world war (Cold War) breaking out at any time, worse medical treatment, inferior technology, they suffered through recessions, 20% interest rates etc.
Gen-Y are just a bunch of self-entitled whingers. They don't seem to understand that the baby boomers spent a lifetime building up their current wealth. They didn't have all that wealth when they were in their 20s and 30s. No generation can expect to be as wealthy in their 20s as they will be in their 60s. It takes a lifetime to build wealth.
In a few decades from now when Gen-Y are entering their retirement years, having inherited all that wealth as the boomers die, and built up some of their own wealth on top, it will be the new batch of 20-30 year-olds whinging and bleating about how Gen-Y had it so easy, and how it's not fair that house prices were so much cheaper in 2017.
Doesn't the little bitch protest too much? Lol. Sign of a guilty conscience.
You love some data.
Back up your 'baby boomers had it worse' with some data why don't you?
Or would you rather rest your argument on the bodies of dead Australian soldiers in Vietnam?
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?
The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly. Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
I don't know anybody who wants to buy who is holding out for a crash before they buy.
Never met anybody like that in my life.
But I have met a hell of lot of people who are totally pissed off with the current cost of a basic essential like housing.
Thinking back, I can't ever remember the cost of housing being an issue, a news item. It didn't need to be an issue though Herbie because it wasn't an issue.
Back in the 80's, for me, the cost of housing wan't a biggy. Rent or buy, either way, it wasn't going to be a big chunk of my lifetimes wages.
Maybe the same as buying a couple of new cars at the same time. Expensive but not a lifetime of slavery expensive.
But back then, my parents were not looking to hoover up all the 3x1 fibros in our suburb to rent out to next years leavers.
And the government didn't chuck money at them to encourage them to do so.
FFS you sold thinking you would buy back cheap and make a killing, and now you're getting sanctimonious on us jimbo.
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
I don't know anybody who wants to buy who is holding out for a crash before they buy.
Never met anybody like that in my life.
But I have met a hell of lot of people who are totally pissed off with the current cost of a basic essential like housing.
Thinking back, I can't ever remember the cost of housing being an issue, a news item. It didn't need to be an issue though Herbie because it wasn't an issue.
Back in the 80's, for me, the cost of housing wan't a biggy. Rent or buy, either way, it wasn't going to be a big chunk of my lifetimes wages.
Maybe the same as buying a couple of new cars at the same time. Expensive but not a lifetime of slavery expensive.
But back then, my parents were not looking to hoover up all the 3x1 fibros in our suburb to rent out to next years leavers.
And the government didn't chuck money at them to encourage them to do so.
Then don't buy in Sydvegas/Melvegas mayhaps? - Tho you'll break their greedy little taxationist state govs little hearts if you don't? ...
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer:"negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
FFS you sold thinking you would buy back cheap and make a killing, and now you're getting sanctimonious on us jimbo.
And you run away once the conversation gets to the pointy end.
Basically, everything you write amounts to: I am here to defend every single facet of the current political and economic structures controlling housing provision in this country.
Property acquisition as a topic was almost a national obsession. You couldn't even call it speculation as the buyers all presumed the price of property could only go up. That’s why we use the word obsession. Ordinary people were buying properties for their young children who had not even left school assuming they would not be able to afford property of their own when they left college- Klaus Regling on Ireland. Sound familiar?
The evidence of nearly 40 cycles in house prices for 17 OECD economies since 1970 shows that real house prices typically give up about 70 per cent of their rise in the subsequent fall, and that these falls occur slowly. Morgan Kelly:On the Likely Extent of Falls in Irish House Prices, 2007
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