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Speech on Land Titles; The heart of our system of land ownership
Topic Started: 18 Jun 2017, 04:52 PM (6,559 Views)
Ex BP Golly
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Matthew
30 Jun 2017, 06:41 PM
Identity theft is incredibly serious. You should hope like hell that it never happens to you.

If it does and your house is sold fraudulently from under you then you are in the exact same predicament as the lady in Canberra.

Pretend you are somehow different all you want. But you are exactly the same. Exactly the same.
The Registrar cannot transfer ownership of a property without having the Certificate of Title laid before him.

Keep it safe and you are fine.

Lose it and you are fighting in the courts like the women in Canberra.

The Registrar General doesn't want to be held directly accountable for not following the process.
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Matthew
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Ex BP Golly
30 Jun 2017, 06:55 PM
The Registrar cannot transfer ownership of a property without having the Certificate of Title laid before him.

Keep it safe and you are fine.

Lose it and you are fighting in the courts like the women in Canberra.

The Registrar General doesn't want to be held directly accountable for not following the process.
f*** life is like a hamster wheel with you.

Yes idiot the fact that you need a Certificate of Title is not in dispute. Never has been. Not by any of us.

HOWEVER dipshit IF your identity is stolen and the people who STEAL your identity have a new copy of your certificate of title issued by going through the PROPER PROCESSES OPEN TO YOU as the genuine home owner they can SELL YOUR HOME in which case you will be treated under the law EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS THE LADY IN CANBERRA.


The key dumb shit is not to keep your title safe the key is to keep you IDENTITY SAFE. With YOUR IDENTITY STOLEN they can act as you, and sell your home.

If you don't believe that, then you are beyond f***ing clueless.
My only hope for my three boys is that they turn out nothing at all like Chris.
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Um no
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Ex BP Golly
30 Jun 2017, 06:55 PM
Keep it safe and you are fine.
not if the crooks make a fake one or if they say there you and you lost it so they can get a new one from the registrar ! :o
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Rufus
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Um no
30 Jun 2017, 07:21 PM
not if the crooks make a fake one or if they say there you and you lost it so they can get a new one from the registrar ! :o
It's not that simple, there is a process to be gone through which causes a time delay, and some strict identification requirements.

Generally thieves want to do the sting and be gone in a very short time with little chance of exposing themselves to being caught.

How do you think a long winded process would affect the risk profile of the operation.

http://rgdirections.lpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/25950/Appn_replace_CT.pdf
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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Matthew
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Rufus
30 Jun 2017, 08:21 PM
It's not that simple, there is a process to be gone through which causes a time delay, and some strict identification requirements.

Generally thieves want to do the sting and be gone in a very short time with little chance of exposing themselves to being caught.

How do you think a long winded process would affect the risk profile of the operation.

http://rgdirections.lpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/25950/Appn_replace_CT.pdf
The long winded process is not infallible though is it? As evidenced by the few times that it has occurred, including the Canberra woman and the Perth guy where links have been provided.

The thing about Identity Theft though is that you don't know it has happened until you do. And then, in this case it is too late.

The risk profile would be offset by the massive high 6 or low 7 figure payday. Would you be willing to wait a few weeks for hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars if you were an identity thief? Of course you would.

This is the entire argument Golly simply cannot get his gigantic arrogant head around. He thinks that because he has his copy of his title in a safe place he is safe as houses, and if fraud is perpetrated against him then he gets his house back. Despite the fact that there is no evidence of this ever happening.

That is, sadly for golly only the case if he finds out before the sale settles and stalls that settlement. After the event he is simply another sad news story.

To pretend otherwise is foolish.
My only hope for my three boys is that they turn out nothing at all like Chris.
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Rufus
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Matthew
30 Jun 2017, 08:52 PM
The long winded process is not infallible though is it? As evidenced by the few times that it has occurred, including the Canberra woman and the Perth guy where links have been provided.

The thing about Identity Theft though is that you don't know it has happened until you do. And then, in this case it is too late.

The risk profile would be offset by the massive high 6 or low 7 figure payday. Would you be willing to wait a few weeks for hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars if you were an identity thief? Of course you would.

This is the entire argument Golly simply cannot get his gigantic arrogant head around. He thinks that because he has his copy of his title in a safe place he is safe as houses, and if fraud is perpetrated against him then he gets his house back. Despite the fact that there is no evidence of this ever happening.

That is, sadly for golly only the case if he finds out before the sale settles and stalls that settlement. After the event he is simply another sad news story.

To pretend otherwise is foolish.
Your position seems to be that if it isn't iron clad and scam proof then it's not a security measure at all, when really it is an added layer of security, but like Fort Knox nothing is absolutely bullet proof. However the added layer of security is still another layer that a thief has to get through.

I know that Golly is annoying, especially when he opens 4000 threads on this issue, but it's not as though he is entirely wrong, he does have a point.
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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Matthew
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Rufus
30 Jun 2017, 09:06 PM
Your position seems to be that if it isn't iron clad and scam proof then it's not a security measure at all, when really it is an added layer of security, but like Fort Knox nothing is absolutely bullet proof. However the added layer of security is still another layer that a thief has to get through.
My position is that Golly is no different to any other citizen of this nation. He claims that he cannot be defrauded and that in the event of fraud he will have his house returned to him because he has a piece of paper. He is dead wrong on both counts. It isn't about the levels of security or being bullet proof, it is about dealing with the facts of life as they are. He is wrong. Simple as that. The levels and layers of security, if breached, in relation to him personally does not alter anything at all one single bit. He is deluded.

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I know that Golly is annoying, especially when he opens 4000 threads on this issue, but it's not as though he is entirely wrong, he does have a point.
In relation to the fact that if he is not the victim of identity theft his property is secure he has a 100% valid point and that is not at all in dispute.

In relation to his assertions that the fact an individual landowner is not holding the physical paper copy of a CT the homeowner has lost control of their CT and is at greater risk of identity theft or property fraud he is dead wrong. You are only at risk if your identity is stolen and that risk is equal no matter where your physical title is.

In relation to his assertions that should he be defrauded of property he waving a superseded title around demanding his property back and thinking it will be returned to him as well as additional compensation he is also dead wrong.

He has placed too much faith in a piece of paper in a world where all I need is his wallet, an address of property he owns and patience to claim what is his.

My only hope for my three boys is that they turn out nothing at all like Chris.
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Rufus
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Matthew
30 Jun 2017, 10:35 PM
My position is that Golly is no different to any other citizen of this nation. He claims that he cannot be defrauded and that in the event of fraud he will have his house returned to him because he has a piece of paper. He is dead wrong on both counts. It isn't about the levels of security or being bullet proof, it is about dealing with the facts of life as they are. He is wrong. Simple as that. The levels and layers of security, if breached, in relation to him personally does not alter anything at all one single bit. He is deluded.


In relation to the fact that if he is not the victim of identity theft his property is secure he has a 100% valid point and that is not at all in dispute.

In relation to his assertions that the fact an individual landowner is not holding the physical paper copy of a CT the homeowner has lost control of their CT and is at greater risk of identity theft or property fraud he is dead wrong. You are only at risk if your identity is stolen and that risk is equal no matter where your physical title is.

In relation to his assertions that should he be defrauded of property he waving a superseded title around demanding his property back and thinking it will be returned to him as well as additional compensation he is also dead wrong.

He has placed too much faith in a piece of paper in a world where all I need is his wallet, an address of property he owns and patience to claim what is his.
If Golly had his ID stolen the criminals would still have to get their hands on the Certificate of Title that he holds before they could benefit. It would take another level of planning and sophistication to either counterfeit his CT or go through the process of applying for another title deed, so he does have that added layer of protection.

Note that generally there is no CT issued, so most fraudsters wouldn't be prepared for it.

Whether holding a CT makes any difference to the outcome of any fraud in regard to compensation or the return of the property is something that I don't know.
Edited by Rufus, 30 Jun 2017, 11:31 PM.
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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Ex BP Golly
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Matthew
30 Jun 2017, 08:52 PM
The long winded process is not infallible though is it? As evidenced by the few times that it has occurred, including the Canberra woman and the Perth guy where links have been provided.

The thing about Identity Theft though is that you don't know it has happened until you do. And then, in this case it is too late.

The risk profile would be offset by the massive high 6 or low 7 figure payday. Would you be willing to wait a few weeks for hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars if you were an identity thief? Of course you would.

This is the entire argument Golly simply cannot get his gigantic arrogant head around. He thinks that because he has his copy of his title in a safe place he is safe as houses, and if fraud is perpetrated against him then he gets his house back. Despite the fact that there is no evidence of this ever happening.

That is, sadly for golly only the case if he finds out before the sale settles and stalls that settlement. After the event he is simply another sad news story.

To pretend otherwise is foolish.
I don't have a "copy of the title", I have the Certificate of Title.
when making the transfer.

The Registrar MUST sight it when undertaking any change of the Register.

It's why those 6 attempts in NSW were caught.

The Registrar did his job, protecting now owners from fraud.


As long as I retain the CT, any sale, transfer etc is illegal as the Registrar will have failed in his legislated duty to sight the Certificate
Edited by Ex BP Golly, 1 Jul 2017, 04:41 AM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
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Rat
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Ex BP Golly
30 Jun 2017, 06:55 PM
The Registrar cannot transfer ownership of a property without having the Certificate of Title laid before him.
The register will have a certificate of title when the scammers do one of the following:

1. Steal yours
2. Steal your identity, say they've lost it, and get a new one from the titles office
3. Create a convincing forgery

And once the property is sold to someone else, your printout is worthless and you WILL NOT get your house back.

The new owner has indefeasible title.
Consumer protection laws extended to small businesses. Banks not permitted to repossess due to non-monetary defaults (for example, a fall in the property value).
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