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"Investor grade" building materials kills 12 (and counting) in the heart of london; Chinese fire proof cladding (gasp) catches fire
Topic Started: 15 Jun 2017, 09:07 AM (4,615 Views)
Rufus
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Blondie girl
15 Jun 2017, 08:29 PM
Horrific. The image of the burning tower is in my mind now.

A seventies piece of crap with no sprinklers, no audible alarm system, no multiple stairways was there any fire extinguishers??? that should of been demolished full stop.

Also, unfortunately building buildings taller than fire appliances can reach brings risk. They can only get ladders to about what 7th/8th floors scary stuff!
Estimates of up to 500 people lived in that building and considering it was the middle of the night I can only imagine it was full of people.

Just horrific.
I understand that the appropriate UK Minister considers that whilst fire sprinklers save lives, it's not up to the government to make buildings install them.
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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herbie
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Bardon
15 Jun 2017, 08:28 PM
It was Christmas Eve 15 when it went up as well, it hasn't reopened yet. Shames as it was real nice, veranda overlooking the tower and the many bars are the mezzanine were pumping and great views of the nightly fountain displays as well.

Emaar to receive Dh1.22 billion insurance claim on Address Downtown hotel fire

http://www.thenational.ae/business/property/emaar-to-receive-dh122-billion-insurance-claim-on-address-downtown-hotel-fire
Sat next ta a Yank on a flight from Singapore ta Dubai in tha mid noughties - Had a bit of a chat ta him about me job (wot lotsa Aussies just mighta seen as havin' some potential downsides ... :) ) - 'N concluded by askin' "So wot's you do mate?" - Ta which he replied: "I drives oil tankers in Iraq - But it ain't so bad now as I pretty much only drives tha empty ones."

I can only give it ta tha dude ... His yarn f***ed mine! - LOL
Edited by herbie, 15 Jun 2017, 09:03 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Blondie girl
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Rufus
15 Jun 2017, 08:47 PM
I understand that the appropriate UK Minister considers that whilst fire sprinklers save lives, it's not up to the government to make buildings install them.
There is going to be some prosecutions over this. An action group had numerous grievances about electrical safety, no safety lights, sealed off exits, also the fire action plan for Grenfell Tower had a "stay put "" policy for residents unless the fire is in or affecting their flat... holy hell would anyone stay put? OMG !! The brain gets flooded with adrenaline and one finds the nearest exit!

Looking at the videos posted of the fire its seems pretty clear that the outside cladding has all burnt away which is incredible. It looks like the fire climbed up the outside and worked its way back into the building on the way up(once the heat cracks the glazing, then the curtains will catch alight and then so one). A fair number of things need to be done wrong for a fire to get out of control so quickly. I know the UK sometimes gets the stick for extreme Health and Safety measures, but here it seems to be so far in the other directions to be almost cavalier.

Seriously, high rise tower blocks don't have sprinkler systems?

Why couldn't large inflatable devices that can be jumped from serious heights be provided early on when it was clear people had no way of escaping? There was a bub thrown from a window which someone was incredibly lucky to catch.. would a baby or child be harmed by falling on an inflatable jump mat from a great height? Better than not fatally hitting the pavement....


Bardon
15 Jun 2017, 07:42 PM
There was two one of them was a hotel called The Address that I had stayed in a few times. I thought it ironic that years before when I used to travel around Indonesia and went to great lengths to avoid the many fire trap hotels yet here was a modern one in the centre of Dubai that never crossed my mind as a fire hazard actually went up in flames.

It was the aluminum cladding packed with polyurethane foam that combusted, its now banned in Dubai. Although many existing buildings are clad with it.
Yes
there has been a couple of bad cladding fires, fires burn for several hours but no casualites. One thing is there was a firebreak in the cladding between each floor which seems to have inhibited the spread of the fire.


I'm glad I'm a fit person. When staying at hotels I don't just read the map on the back of the hotel room door.. LOOK FOR THE STAIRWAY and if you can run down the nearest and safe stairway just do it... get a face towel wet it and use it for the face...

Don't sit and wait it out...
Edited by Blondie girl, 15 Jun 2017, 09:24 PM.
Newjerk? can you try harder than dig up another person's blog. My first promo was with Billabong and my name in English is modified with a T, am Perth born but also lived in Sydney to make my $$
It's Absolutely Fabulous if it includes brilliant locations, & high calibre tenants..what more does one want? Understand the power of the two "P"" or be financially challenged
Even better when there is family who are property mad and one is born in some entitlements.....Understand that beautiful women are the exhibitionists we crave attention, whilst hot blooded men are the voyeurs ... A stunning woman can command and takes pleasure in being noticed. Seems not too many understand what it means to hold and own props and get threatened by those who do.
Banks are considered to be law abiding and & rather boring places yeah not true . A bank balance sheet will show capital is dwarfed by their liabilities this means when a portions of loans is falling its problems for the bank.
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herbie
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Rufus
15 Jun 2017, 08:47 PM
I understand that the appropriate UK Minister considers that whilst fire sprinklers save lives, it's not up to the government to make buildings install them.
Sounds a bit like tha Brits reckons at least some of their buildings is tha equivalent of (or down a bit even on) some of Rome's Insula from a coupla thousand yrs back:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insula_(building)
Edited by herbie, 15 Jun 2017, 09:46 PM.
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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hidflect
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Jimbo
15 Jun 2017, 03:43 PM
In older cladding systems, the insulation of choice was mineral wool (Rockwool). This doesn't burn. This material is still used to insulate Dongas due to their light steel frame construction (rockwool is stuffed into the framework).

Most new buildings are clad with polyisocyanurate (PIR) insulation. Looks like exapnding foam filler with a thin layer of foil on either side. Performs really well as an insulation, but it is flammable.

Looks like the London tower was clad with an aluminium outer face and rigid PIR behind it (Celotex FR5000).

Rainscreen cladding systems require an air gap between the outer skin and the insulation. Although the cladding face won't burn, if the insulation behind it catches fire, it will spread upwards with the aid of the air gap. The problem being that the outer skin will shield the fire from any attempts to fight the fire with water. The windows in the London tower had also been changed to UPVC frames which will melt and break down in a fire creating a pathway into each individual unit. The original windows would have been the old crappy Crittall mild steel frames. Horrible things used extensively in UK council house construction, but, they don't melt like the UPVC.

The long and short of it is that had the building not been refurbished, the fire would have been confined to the source unit. Individual council flats catch fire all the time in the UK with little consequence. The application of a flammable material, shielded from firefighters by a rainscreen facing with an air gap to allow spread of flame, was the cause of this disaster.



I worked in a fabricator making polyisocyanurate cladding for an LNG plant. The stuff is not only flammable, it's deadly toxic. We weren't even allowed to smoke a cigarette on site because if any of it landed on the ciggie as dust and was burnt and inhaled, it could give you serious health problems immediately or cancer later on.

The Tory (property) party refused to insist on sprinklers in building codes saying it would dampen applications for building permits. After all, what's a few dozen lives when there's cash to be rorted?
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Chris
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Rufus
15 Jun 2017, 08:47 PM
I understand that the appropriate UK Minister considers that whilst fire sprinklers save lives, it's not up to the government to make buildings install them.
They were government housing blocks?!
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herbie
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Chris
15 Jun 2017, 10:28 PM
They were government housing blocks?!
"Three-quarters of all UK social housing blocks found to be 'potentially unsafe in a fire' in 2011 report"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/grenfell-tower-fire-social-housing-block-flats-unsafe-fire-2011-report-government-three-quarters-a7789486.html

'Tho ya can argue tha toss all day long as ta wot tha diff just might (or not) be between 'government' 'n 'social' if it rocks ya boat I 'spose - If ya feels ta knock yaself out over it?
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Ex BP Golly
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Trollie
15 Jun 2017, 08:24 PM
How do you know ANY product you buy meets it's claimed standards?
If the guy selling it doesn't have his guts spilled on the footpath?

Edited by Ex BP Golly, 16 Jun 2017, 09:49 AM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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herbie
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A couple other implications of this just maybes will be:

* Buyers of property (and particularly apartments) wanting fire safety inspections as well as building and pest - Assuming ya standard building inspection hasn't bin overly focused on fire hazards to date?

* Some VERY BIG body corporate charges on owners of existing apartments to get them 'up ta spec'? (For apartments that aren't.)
A Professional Demographer to an amateur demographer: "negative natural increase will never outweigh the positive net migration"
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Ex BP Golly
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herbie
16 Jun 2017, 08:16 AM
A couple other implications of this just maybes will be:

* Buyers of property (and particularly apartments) wanting fire safety inspections as well as building and pest - Assuming ya standard building inspection hasn't bin overly focused on fire hazards to date?

* Some VERY BIG body corporate charges on owners of existing apartments to get them 'up ta spec'? (For apartments that aren't.)
9,000,000 pounds to clad that London heap.

Apparently this product is wrote expensive if you tell people it conforms to code and applicable standards.

Here is an article of interest:

Boss of company which installed ‘highly flammable’ Grenfell Tower cladding ‘did not know’ what material was used
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/boss-of-company-which-installed-highly-flammable-grenfell-tower-cladding-did-not-know-what-material-was-used/news-story/e87bade91c71f8e173e39f3e38e2dd0b




WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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