Yes Golly, it is clearly established that the most current certificate of title is needed and that copies can be made by satisfying identity requirements which is the cornerstone of identity fraud.
However my question to you is that in the event of identity fraud are you able to provide examples where on producing proof of said fraud the property is taken from the current owner (per title and register) and returned to the person defrauded of said property?
Can you answer that question, or will you continue to ignore it?
There are no examples in NSW because the system works so well.
You will note in the circular below that all errors were made before the Registrar sat down and asked for the CT to be presented to him, before amending the Register.
Hence why this circular exists. Read between the lines - the Registrar is saying- "I do my job, why the f*** aren't you you clowns".
Thus:
"No: 2003/05 March 2003 Circular
Counterfeit Certificates of Title
The Registrar General wishes to advise customers of LPI of further incidences of fraud involving the use of counterfeit Certificates of Title. The scheme was first uncovered in late 2002. A total of six counterfeit Certificates of Title have been detected to date by LPI. Generally, the fraud works in the following way. The fraudsters create a counterfeit Certificate of Title, assemble fraudulent personal identification documents and present these to a financial institution to secure a mortgage over the land.
In all but one case, loans have been arranged through mortgage brokers. The Law Society of NSW has advised that in each instance, the fraudsters have presented themselves to a solicitor with whom they have had no previous association and requested the solicitor to act on their behalf in relation to an approved mortgage loan. All instances to date have involved unencumbered land, and the fraudsters have instructed solicitors to pay the proceeds of the mortgage to persons other than the registered proprietor.
The NSW Police Fraud Squad is currently investigating these matters. LPI is acting to strengthen security controls, including taking steps to make Certificates of Title more difficult to replicate.
However, most activity relating to this fraud occurs well before documents are presented for registration at LPI. Therefore I urge all members of the NSW conveyancing community to exercise vigilance particularly when confronted with circumstances that appear to fit the modus operandi of the fraudsters as outlined above. Apart from the need to ensure thorough identity checks have been undertaken, if you have any doubts as to the authenticity of a Certificate of Title please feel free to contact LPI for advice before taking further action.
The type and quality of the counterfeit Certificates of Title varies. Distinguishing features of the counterfeits identified so far include: • Lack of clarity of the State crest; • Signature of the Registrar General may not be consistent with the holder of that office at the time of title issue; and • Variations in the colour of margin notes on the face of the Certificate of Title and in the words ‘Certificate of Title’ on the reverse side.
Inquiries may be directed to Ron Sale, Customer Services Manager by telephone on 02 9228 6996 or by email to ron.sale@ditm.nsw.gov.au. Des Mooney General Manager"
It gives me great confidence in Certificates of Title in NSW that the Registry is picking this stuff up, but really, those working in the feild as lawyers, conveyancers, mortgage brokers etc should be doing their jobs and checking Title and Right to Deal long before lodging paperwork with the Registry.
Maybe there are lots of clowns like Shadow who don't have a clue working above their station in life?
The Real Property Amendment (Electronic Conveyancing) Act 2015 introduced a new section 12E into the Real Property Act 1900 which allows the Registrar General to make Conveyancing Rules. The Conveyancing Rules will largely parallel provisions in the Participation Rules for electronic conveyancing. The Rules will facilitate aligning paper conveyancing practices and workflows with those developed for electronic conveyancing and will be implemented in stages.
The first version of the Conveyancing Rules standardise formal verification of identity and authority (right to deal) requirements across all conveyancing including:
requirements for verification of identity requirements for verifying authority supporting evidence requirements.
Verification of Identity
Rule 4.1 of the Conveyancing Rules applies to Australian legal practitioners, law practices and licensed conveyancers ('Representatives'). From 1 August 2016 a Representative must take reasonable steps to verify the identity of clients or their agents, and persons to whom certificates of title are given.
The Real Property Amendment (Electronic Conveyancing) Act 2015 introduced a new section 12E into the Real Property Act 1900 which allows the Registrar General to make Conveyancing Rules. The Conveyancing Rules will largely parallel provisions in the Participation Rules for electronic conveyancing. The Rules will facilitate aligning paper conveyancing practices and workflows with those developed for electronic conveyancing and will be implemented in stages.
The first version of the Conveyancing Rules standardise formal verification of identity and authority (right to deal) requirements across all conveyancing including:
requirements for verification of identity requirements for verifying authority supporting evidence requirements.
Verification of Identity
Rule 4.1 of the Conveyancing Rules applies to Australian legal practitioners, law practices and licensed conveyancers ('Representatives'). From 1 August 2016 a Representative must take reasonable steps to verify the identity of clients or their agents, and persons to whom certificates of title are given.
So again we see the magical words "Certificate of Title"!
Why do these government agencies keep harping on about Certificates of Title in all their procedures, if our resident expert property investors ( ) are correct and Certificates of Title are so meaningless, Shadow can print of hundreds in a morning!
It's another sign that banks have fundamentally failed in due diligence and prudential standards that they can loan vast amounts of money to people so fundamentally clueless about how the system works!
The law is very clear on the fact that a title acquired fraudulently may be revoked
"May be", but it's unlikely. It would only be revoked in the unlikely event the buyer is the person who committed the fraud. In that case there is somebody to prosecute because the actual buyer is the one who broke the law, so you might get the property back.
However if your printout is stolen or counterfeited by Nigerian scammers, or they fake your identity to obtain a replacement copy, then they can sell your home to a third party. The third party did not break the law, and the home now rightfully belongs to them. Their title is indefeasible and your printout is worthless. You will not get the property back. There is nobody to prosecute - the scammers are long gone. You might be compensated by the government after a lengthy and stressful court battle. No guarantees.
Golly, this fact is clearly troubling you, considering the number of threads in which you're now raving about it. I suggest you obtain a mortgage to safeguard your property against this happening.
"How many coffees can buy you a house? There are certain things Australians seem to love arguing about, and housing is one of them. Prices in the major capital cities aren’t slowing down, and more young people are simply giving up hope at the idea of ever owning a solid piece of land or property. That fear was exacerbated to the extreme in the past several weeks, when property investor Tim Gurner said that Generation Y should stop going out for “smashed avocado and $4 coffees” in order to afford a house. Hold up…coffee? ...
Sydney Median house price: $1,151,000 For a 20% deposit, Sydney siders would need to give up 57,550 coffees that cost $4 each. That’s 157 years of worth of coffees. Melbourne Median house price: $843,000 For those living in Melbourne, a 20% deposit of $168,000 would require giving up 42,150 coffees. That’s only 115 years of coffee – a steal when compared to Sydney! (Except not really.) Brisbane Median house price: $532,000 It gets a little easier up north. A 20% deposit of $106,000 will only require 26,600 coffees, which is 72 years worth of savings. Darwin Median house price: $598,000 Who knew Darwin prices would be more expensive than Brisbane? At this rate, a 20% deposit of $119,000 will take you 29,900 coffees, or 81 years worth of saving. Perth Median house price: $561,000 Perth has taken a little bit of a hit on its property prices recently as the mining boom winds down. A 20% deposit here will take you $112,000, or 28,000 coffees and 76 years worth of savings.
This shit threatens to pop Sydney's property bubble!
yThat 1 smashed avo a day for 10 years.
What a sacrifice!
On point.
On a side note, I'd like to give credit to the photographers for the yummy photos.
"May be", but it's unlikely. It would only be revoked in the unlikely event the buyer is the person who committed the fraud. In that case there is somebody to prosecute because the actual buyer is the one who broke the law, so you might get the property back.
However if your printout is stolen or counterfeited by Nigerian scammers, or they fake your identity to obtain a replacement copy, then they can sell your home to a third party. The third party did not break the law, and the home now rightfully belongs to them. Their title is indefeasible and your printout is worthless. You will not get the property back. There is nobody to prosecute - the scammers are long gone. You might be compensated by the government after a lengthy and stressful court battle. No guarantees.
Golly, this fact is clearly troubling you, considering the number of threads in which you're now raving about it. I suggest you obtain a mortgage to safeguard your property against this happening.
That was all made up bullshit.
Why does the Registrar General devote so much time to verifying, protecting, and improving security countermeasures on Certificates of Title if they are as pointless as you claim?
cherylceq
28 Jun 2017, 11:51 PM
On point.
On a side note, I'd like to give credit to the photographers for the yummy photos.
Austrayan property investors impact on international culture!
There are no examples in NSW because the system works so well.
Cute is your stupidity.
Not only does that comment not strengthen your case, it does not address my point from the start that NSW isn't all of Australia and thus your comments regarding non NSW residents lacking credibility.
My only hope for my three boys is that they turn out nothing at all like Chris.
Not only does that comment not strengthen your case, it does not address my point from the start that NSW isn't all of Australia and thus your comments regarding non NSW residents lacking credibility.
The system does work well. Despite being populated by the sort of retards the real estate sector naturally attracts, the attempts at fraud were picked up during the Certificate of Title inspection process.
You don't even have to have a basic understanding, nor even an appreciation of how it safeguards you.
The system does work well. Despite being populated by the sort of retards the real estate sector naturally attracts, the attempts at fraud were picked up during the Certificate of Title inspection process.
You don't even have to have a basic understanding, nor even an appreciation of how it safeguards you.
Isn't that wonderful!
Hats of to Mr Torrens.
The system works perfectly well unless you are the victim of identity theft. All I need to do is steal your wallet and your physical title and I can sell your home. If I have your wallet all I need to do is pass the ID verification check (assuming your wallet contains a Drivers License, Medicare Card, Debit Card and Credit Card) and they will give me a new copy of your title.
The system does not have your photo on file, your DNA, retina scan or finger print. You to the title office are an ID construct.
The danger is identity theft. That is a real danger no matter where you keep your piece of paper.
My only hope for my three boys is that they turn out nothing at all like Chris.
The system works perfectly well unless you are the victim of identity theft. All I need to do is steal your wallet and your physical title and I can sell your home. If I have your wallet all I need to do is pass the ID verification check (assuming your wallet contains a Drivers License, Medicare Card, Debit Card and Credit Card) and they will give me a new copy of your title.
The system does not have your photo on file, your DNA, retina scan or finger print. You to the title office are an ID construct.
The danger is identity theft. That is a real danger no matter where you keep your piece of paper.
Just Google land titles and verification of identity.
It's not difficult.
And it's not a piece of paper Shadow, it's called a "Certificate of Title."
Check a legal dictionary for the legal meaning of those words.
They are very specific.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE! Share a cot with Milton?
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