New title docs are printed out each time the property changes hands, and replacements/copies can also be printed.
Did you find your printout? Have you checked it's still there?
From OED:
Print out = A page or set of pages of printed material obtained from a computer's printer. ‘a printout of the names and addresses of all the applicants’
Certificate = An official document attesting a fact. i.e. A document attesting ownership of an item or the fulfilment of legal requirements. ‘a share certificate’
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE! Share a cot with Milton?
Print out = A page or set of pages of printed material obtained from a computer's printer. ‘a printout of the names and addresses of all the applicants’
Certificate = An official document attesting a fact. i.e. A document attesting ownership of an item or the fulfilment of legal requirements. ‘a share certificate’
Man I feel like you guys are going around in circles.
I'm just going to referee here, I haven't researched anything just posing some questions to help out.
Golly/Rat/Trollie, here's the questions you guys can answer to find out where you all stand.
1. Do you believe your physical certificate can be replaced if lost?
2. Do you believe at least one document exists of your certificate either physically or digitally that isn't in your personal possession?
3. Do you believe you hold the original document (if Yes, that means you believe that any other existing copies are either a digital scan or a physical copy)?
4. If you think you hold the original, in the event that you lose your original document, do you believe all documents obtained thereafter are now just copies of the original and the original no longer exists?
5. If you believe you hold the one and only certificate, and no other copies exist, how do you replace it if you lose it? Do you believe you go through a number formal processes to try to prove you are the true owner to get a new original document written up, or do you just lose it forever?
Under the Torrens title system the only true register of ownership resides at the lands title office in each State.
If you hold a copy of the title it is just a copy. But there is only 1 copy at all times. As mentioned by others, if you lose it you can get a replacement if you follow a particular procedure. The replacement becomes the 1 copy and the lost version is defunct (even if you find it again).
If you sell your property you need to produce the outstanding copy. If it's lost you need to apply for a new one before the sale can go through. Once the copy and the signed transfer is produced at the land titles office the registrar will update the actual record of ownership that they (and only they) hold.
NSW has transitioned to a fully electronic register so new transactions will not result in a 1 outstanding copy anymore. You'll just get a print out of who the current owner is. The other States will go this way soon (if they haven't already).
Unfortunately the State title office websites use confusing language when talking about this, such as, "original title" and "certificate of title" to refer to the outstanding copy. Maybe they do this on purpose so that people take good care of the outstanding copy. It is a pain if you lose it. You have to sign a statutory declaration that you looked for it and can't find it and make reasonable enquiries of lawyers etc involved in past transfers and refinances and pay a fee and it can take a while (which is a pain where you have sold and only then realise it is lost).
Man I feel like you guys are going around in circles.
I'm just going to referee here, I haven't researched anything just posing some questions to help out.
Golly/Rat/Trollie, here's the questions you guys can answer to find out where you all stand.
1. Do you believe your physical certificate can be replaced if lost?
2. Do you believe at least one document exists of your certificate either physically or digitally that isn't in your personal possession?
3. Do you believe you hold the original document (if Yes, that means you believe that any other existing copies are either a digital scan or a physical copy)?
4. If you think you hold the original, in the event that you lose your original document, do you believe all documents obtained thereafter are now just copies of the original and the original no longer exists?
5. If you believe you hold the one and only certificate, and no other copies exist, how do you replace it if you lose it? Do you believe you go through a number formal processes to try to prove you are the true owner to get a new original document written up, or do you just lose it forever?
Basically, what you need to know is that the Land Titles office maintains a register, and everytime they make an amendment to the Register, they produce a new Certificate of Title which they give to the owner.
Additional changes to the Register requires the production of the existing Certificate of Title, and when a new change to the Register is made, a new Certificate of Title is created, and given to the owner.
It's a safety process, for example like safety deposit boxes in a bank. The bank has a key, and the owner of the box has a key, and the box can only be opened with both keys.
So, changes to the Register can only occur when the Certificate is present.
There is only one certificate. (There could be older ones that hadn't been destroyed previously (lost and later refound, and illegally retained), but they won't have the correct security features such as the "Certificate Authentication Code", which won't correspond with the sequential certificate numbers, nor bar codes, (and some other security features". You can find details about this here: http://www.lpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/141147/NSW_Certificates_of_Title_security_features.pdf
Replacement Certificate of Titles will have a new Certificate Authentication Code, and bar codes etc. The owner, dp, lot number etc are all the same, just the security features change.
There have been recent changes under the Pexxa scheme to make things easier for banks, but electronic titles are only available to APRA regulated banks.
When someone has paid their debt obligations to the bank, the bank forwards a message to Land Titles who then create a new Certificate and give it to the now debt free owner. (An involved process using lawyers etc, but that's the gist)
Changes are also occurring with digitising the Register, and this might lead to digital titles. (Banks have them at present to save expense)
Let's hope a foreign govt doesn't decide to destroy the Register as an act of war!
I'll be keeping hold of my paper certificates for the foreseeable future
A Lurker
14 Jun 2017, 03:43 PM
Under the Torrens title system the only true register of ownership resides at the lands title office in each State.
If you hold a copy of the title it is just a copy. But there is only 1 copy at all times. As mentioned by others, if you lose it you can get a replacement if you follow a particular procedure. The replacement becomes the 1 copy and the lost version is defunct (even if you find it again).
If you sell your property you need to produce the outstanding copy. If it's lost you need to apply for a new one before the sale can go through. Once the copy and the signed transfer is produced at the land titles office the registrar will update the actual record of ownership that they (and only they) hold.
NSW has transitioned to a fully electronic register so new transactions will not result in a 1 outstanding copy anymore. You'll just get a print out of who the current owner is. The other States will go this way soon (if they haven't already).
Unfortunately the State title office websites use confusing language when talking about this, such as, "original title" and "certificate of title" to refer to the outstanding copy. Maybe they do this on purpose so that people take good care of the outstanding copy. It is a pain if you lose it. You have to sign a statutory declaration that you looked for it and can't find it and make reasonable enquiries of lawyers etc involved in past transfers and refinances and pay a fee and it can take a while (which is a pain where you have sold and only then realise it is lost).
Pretty well correct, but not quite.
I will bold the bit below that shows paper certificate are still issued to individual owners, to clarify the point you made which I bolded in your quote above. ( I guess only owners.... and bankers would understand this😉)
So only banks deal with property without paper CTs, ( they use electronic CTs) as it saves them and Land Titles a lot in printing and handling costs.
"Control of the Right to Deal (CoRD) In the Torrens System of title by registration, there are two key concepts that underlie current arrangements in NSW. 1. The Right to Deal The right to deal with land in a land title is the inherent right of the registered proprietor to deal (i.e. transact) with their land. 2. Control of the Right to Deal (CoRD) A party has Control of the Right to Deal (CoRD) when that party has authority to consent to the registration of a subsequent interest in land. For example, if land is mortgaged, the first registered mortgagee such as a financial institution has CoRD. When there are no registered mortgages or charges on a land title, the registered proprietor has both the right to deal and Control of the Right to Deal with the land in the land title. When the only mortgage or charge is discharged, CoRD is transferred back to the registered proprietor and a Certificate of Title is issued and delivered. Evidence of CoRD how CoRD is evidenced in NSW. Consent for registry instruments options for a CoRD holder to consent to registration of paper and electronic registry instruments. Consent for registry plans options for a CoRD holder to consent to registration of paper and electronic registry plans. Parties eligible for an eCT requirements for eligibility for an electronic Certificate of Title (eCT). What is an eCT? information in a land title search regarding the issue or non-issue of the CT.
Edit:
Note in the passage immediately above the words "The right to deal with land in a land title is the inherent right of the registered proprietor to deal"
Please try to understand what this means, and why a Certificate of Title is so important.
Many people on this site have said for years- how illiquid land is. That is just not true- if you hold the Certificate of Title. I can sell, trade or dispose property immediately with my CT, as I have "an inherent right to deal".
Basically, what you need to know is that the Land Titles office maintains a register, and everytime they make an amendment to the Register, they produce a new Certificate of Title which they give to the owner.
Additional changes to the Register requires the production of the existing Certificate of Title, and when a new change to the Register is made, a new Certificate of Title is created, and given to the owner.
It's a safety process, for example like safety deposit boxes in a bank. The bank has a key, and the owner of the box has a key, and the box can only be opened with both keys.
So, changes to the Register can only occur when the Certificate is present.
There is only one certificate. (There could be older ones that hadn't been destroyed previously (lost and later refound, and illegally retained), but they won't have the correct security features such as the "Certificate Authentication Code", which won't correspond with the sequential certificate numbers, nor bar codes, (and some other security features". You can find details about this here: http://www.lpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/141147/NSW_Certificates_of_Title_security_features.pdf
Replacement Certificate of Titles will have a new Certificate Authentication Code, and bar codes etc. The owner, dp, lot number etc are all the same, just the security features change.
There have been recent changes under the Pexxa scheme to make things easier for banks, but electronic titles are only available to APRA regulated banks.
When someone has paid their debt obligations to the bank, the bank forwards a message to Land Titles who then create a new Certificate and give it to the now debt free owner. (An involved process using lawyers etc, but that's the gist)
Changes are also occurring with digitising the Register, and this might lead to digital titles. (Banks have them at present to save expense)
Let's hope a foreign govt doesn't decide to destroy the Register as an act of war!
I'll be keeping hold of my paper certificates for the foreseeable future
Pretty well correct, but not quite.
I will bold the bit below that shows paper certificate are still issued to individual owners, to clarify the point you made which I bolded in your quote above. ( I guess only owners.... and bankers would understand this😉)
So only banks deal with property without paper CTs, ( they use electronic CTs) as it saves them and Land Titles a lot in printing and handling costs.
"Control of the Right to Deal (CoRD) In the Torrens System of title by registration, there are two key concepts that underlie current arrangements in NSW. 1. The Right to Deal The right to deal with land in a land title is the inherent right of the registered proprietor to deal (i.e. transact) with their land. 2. Control of the Right to Deal (CoRD) A party has Control of the Right to Deal (CoRD) when that party has authority to consent to the registration of a subsequent interest in land. For example, if land is mortgaged, the first registered mortgagee such as a financial institution has CoRD. When there are no registered mortgages or charges on a land title, the registered proprietor has both the right to deal and Control of the Right to Deal with the land in the land title. When the only mortgage or charge is discharged, CoRD is transferred back to the registered proprietor and a Certificate of Title is issued and delivered. Evidence of CoRD how CoRD is evidenced in NSW. Consent for registry instruments options for a CoRD holder to consent to registration of paper and electronic registry instruments. Consent for registry plans options for a CoRD holder to consent to registration of paper and electronic registry plans. Parties eligible for an eCT requirements for eligibility for an electronic Certificate of Title (eCT). What is an eCT? information in a land title search regarding the issue or non-issue of the CT.
Edit:
Note in the passage immediately above the words "The right to deal with land in a land title is the inherent right of the registered proprietor to deal"
Please try to understand what this means, and why a Certificate of Title is so important.
Many people on this site have said for years- how illiquid land is. That is just not true- if you hold the Certificate of Title. I can sell, trade or dispose property immediately with my CT, as I have "an inherent right to deal".
If you turned up with a piece of paper which differed from what the register has on it's computer, do you think your print out will trump government records?
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