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The high cost of snake oil
Topic Started: 7 Jan 2017, 10:18 AM (10,282 Views)
Trollie
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Chris
13 Jan 2017, 04:59 PM

It's not a narrow set of circumstances it is the reality for the millions of homeowners who are NOT leveraged into property
No it isn't
Chris
13 Jan 2017, 05:23 PM
dangerous attitude that has got us into this mess.
The only dangerous attitude is the one that thinks holding out for a decade for a 40% crash will be a winner
Edited by Trollie, 13 Jan 2017, 05:49 PM.
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Khaderbhai
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Chris
13 Jan 2017, 05:23 PM
I should have re-spelt out everything
You should have said what you meant, instead of saying something different and expecting me to read your mind.

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your saying that people's homes are not homes but they are tools to leverage from
They're both - that's the great thing about property. It provides shelter and it's also an excellent investment.

Smart people have been using property to generate wealth for many generations. Don't expect that to change any time soon.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Chris
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Khaderbhai
13 Jan 2017, 08:43 PM
You should have said what you meant, instead of saying something different and expecting me to read your mind.


They're both - that's the great thing about property. It provides shelter and it's also an excellent investment.

Smart people have been using property to generate wealth for many generations. Don't expect that to change any time soon.
But that's a statement that has no bearing to the initial question. There are around 2 mil investors in Australia today, that figure is probably quite generous. The fact remains ABS stats stated there are approximately 4mil other home owners who do not have any other investment properties.

They are the majority when compared to investors who do have a PPOR and at least one IP and they are told they are getting richer as house prices rise. If they do not leverage off it to buy property or rent out a room or sell the roof tiles, or any other ridiculous assertion you want to name. If they just live in it and pay the mortgage how are these $4m Australians becoming richer as prices rise?

You know I'm right shadow, it is an urban myth trotted out to the majority so they allow the minority's to rape the tax system.

You can write whatever response you like with your sock Team but people will read this and know I'm right. The next time they read the front page of a national paper that says 'your house has gone up $2000 a week' they will look at it and go 'so what' knowing it is absolutely meaningless if the are not specufestors like you.
Edited by Chris, 13 Jan 2017, 09:21 PM.
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Trollie
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Chris
13 Jan 2017, 09:20 PM
The fact remains ABS stats stated there are approximately 4mil other home owners who do not have any other investment properties.
Irrelevant, it's like saying money in the bank is no good because you didn't spend it all.

They are wealthier when their PPOR goes up. If it's not wealth why can you use the equity in it?
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Khaderbhai
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Chris
13 Jan 2017, 09:20 PM
If they do not leverage off it to buy property or rent out a room or sell the roof tiles, or any other ridiculous assertion you want to name. If they just live in it and pay the mortgage how are these $4m Australians becoming richer as prices rise?
That's right Chris. If they choose never to use their extra wealth, then it's of no financial benefit to them. Stating the obvious really. It's like saying a car is useless if you choose to never drive it.
Edited by Khaderbhai, 13 Jan 2017, 09:52 PM.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Chris
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Khaderbhai
13 Jan 2017, 09:49 PM
That's right Chris. If they choose never to use their extra wealth, then it's of no financial benefit to them. Stating the obvious really. It's like saying a car is useless if you choose to never drive it.
It's not the same as a car is not a basic human right as is shelter so the analogy is terrible. Shelter should not be an investment stream used to leverage massive debt at massive risk to benefit the minority, but hey that's where we're at right.

Thank you for confirming that house price rises do nothing for the majority of hard working Australians.
Edited by Chris, 13 Jan 2017, 10:16 PM.
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Khaderbhai
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Chris
13 Jan 2017, 10:15 PM
It's not the same as a car is not a basic human right as is shelter so the analogy is terrible.
Shelter might be a basic human right, but that doesn't necessarily mean owning a house. Millions of Australians have shelter without owning a home.

But those who choose to own a home tend to generate a lot of wealth. Homeowners are wealthier than renters at every stage of life.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Chris
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Khaderbhai
13 Jan 2017, 10:44 PM
Shelter might be a basic human right, but that doesn't necessarily mean owning a house. Millions of Australians have shelter without owning a home.

But those who choose to own a home tend to generate a lot of wealth. Homeowners are wealthier than renters at every stage of life.
But by using that basic human right as a 'tool' to generate wealth through speculation you fundamentally deny people who other wise have shelter that basic human right. Not everyone can afford to own but given homeless rates have risen significantly over the last 5 yrs it's fair to say that higher prices deprive people of the right to shelter.

It's also a fact that the economy is tipping into recession because of housing, people are so heavily committed to large mortgages chasing the dream they stop spending on consumables. Rents are high and have been for a long time which has also removed wealth from the economy back into those highly leveraged mortgages. There is so much dead money weighing down the economy on non productive assets it is choking the nation into submission. If we controlled the cost of housing you immediately have a nation with greater disposable income, I'm sure you could figure out the rest. Now we are in a boom to bust scenario and everyone will be financially ass raped in some way because if blokess like you.

And your are 100% wrong about homeowners being richer than renters at every stage of life, basic maths would tell you you are wrong. Don't peddle mystical lies.

Homeowners might see a 12% rise in value over 12 months but if they were forced to sell after this period they would lose everything, possibly go backwards with entry and exit costs. This is simple logic and yet your happy to sprout a complete load of bullshite to further your distorted view of the world. Owning will see someone better off but it will take at least a decade to be convincingly wealthier than a renter who deligently saves and invest in other streams.

Your whole model is built on a speculative framework of buy, capital gains, revalue, leverage off it and buy another one. Rinse and repeat and you'll be rich rich rich i tells yah!!

That is the Australian culture now and it will eventually destroy this country financially, it can't go on like this without the inevitable occurring.
Edited by Chris, 14 Jan 2017, 06:47 AM.
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Khaderbhai
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Chris
14 Jan 2017, 06:36 AM
And your are 100% wrong about homeowners being richer than renters at every stage of life, basic maths would tell you you are wrong. Don't peddle mystical lies.
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That is the Australian culture now and it will eventually destroy this country financially
Not really interested in moralising about it. Just stating the facts. Millions of Australians enjoy shelter without owning a home, but those who choose to buy property tend to generate far more wealth than renters.
Edited by Khaderbhai, 14 Jan 2017, 07:10 AM.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Rufus
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Chris
14 Jan 2017, 06:36 AM
It's also a fact that the economy is tipping into recession because of housing, people are so heavily committed to large mortgages chasing the dream they stop spending on consumables.
Where on earth do you guys get these completely unsubstantiated ideas from?
Take risks - if you win you will become wealthy, if you lose you will become wise
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