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The high cost of snake oil
Topic Started: 7 Jan 2017, 10:18 AM (10,283 Views)
Chris
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Trollie
13 Jan 2017, 01:33 PM
This bullshit where you keep claiming it doesn't matter if your house rises in value.

If prices crashed you'd be on here crowing how much money the bulls have lost you epic one-eyed buffoon.
If it crashes those who speculated on property will lose, most will be destroyed.

The difference for owner occupiers in their PPOR when prices rise due to soecukation is non existence. As long as they have been paying down p&i over 10yrs on the PPOR and not used it to leverage off (they have no investments) they will be no better or worse off in a crash. Their property may fall 15% but so does the next house they want to upgrade to so it really doesn't matter. A crash won't phase them because after 10yrs of paying down the loan they are highly unlikely to go underwater.

However if they leveraged off the PPOR to buy IPs, shares and or used equity to buy cars/holidays etc then they will be f***ed.

Do you get this or are you brain dead?
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Trollie
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Chris
13 Jan 2017, 02:16 PM
Their property may fall 15% but so does the next house they want to upgrade to so it really doesn't matter.
Christ you have no idea Chris, keep renting please it's safer for you that way.
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Khaderbhai
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Trollie
13 Jan 2017, 02:29 PM
Christ you have no idea Chris, keep renting please it's safer for you that way.
Chris is the sort of person who will never own a home, like Veritas. He's destined to remain a renter forever, paying money to landlords for the rest of his life.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Chris
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Trollie
13 Jan 2017, 02:29 PM
Christ you have no idea Chris, keep renting please it's safer for you that way.
You know I'm right but you refuse to acknowledge it, just pathetic.

Khaderbhai
13 Jan 2017, 02:37 PM
Chris is the sort of person who will never own a home, like Veritas. He's destined to remain a renter forever, paying money to landlords for the rest of his life.
I have never ever said that renting is a better option than owning as you head into older age. If that's what you hit from this you are a complete an utter moron who lacks the ability to comprehend anything.

I specifically stated that buying a PPOR as an OO and refraining from leveraging off it during times like this where prices 'rise' artificially is the smartest choice you could make. After 10yrs your wages will be significantly higher and you can save a large deposit for a PG IP.

Come on Trollie explain to me how price rises assist owner occupiers in the following circumstances;

1. They never leverage debt off the 'equity' created by the rises to buy other IP;
2. The value of their house has risen but so has the house they wanted to upgrade to;

Where is the financial benefit under these circumstances? They simply live in the home and pay the mortgage so how will they benefit from price rises, please enlighten me.

Seeming though you chimed in shadow you can answer it also
Edited by Chris, 13 Jan 2017, 03:08 PM.
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Khaderbhai
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Chris
13 Jan 2017, 02:56 PM
I have never ever said that renting is a better option than owning as you head into older age. If that's what you hit from this you are a complete an utter moron who lacks the ability to comprehend anything.

I specifically stated that buying a PPOR as an OO and refraining from leveraging off it during times like this where prices 'rise' artificially is the smartest choice you could make. After 10yrs your wages will be significantly higher and you can save a large deposit for a PG IP.
So what? That's got nothing to do with what I said, which is that you'll never own a home. You're destined to remain a renter forever.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Trollie
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Chris
13 Jan 2017, 02:56 PM
You know I'm right but you refuse to acknowledge it, just pathetic.
It's been explained to you enough times, you're wrong.
Chris
13 Jan 2017, 02:56 PM
Come on Trollie explain to me how price rises assist owner occupiers in the following circumstances;

1. They never leverage debt off the 'equity' created by the rises to buy other IP;
2. The value of their house has risen but so has the house they wanted to upgrade to;
Yes chris great work, you claim house prices rise mean nothing, but only want to argue 2 narrow examples.

Not too confident there are you big guy.
Edited by Trollie, 13 Jan 2017, 04:31 PM.
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Khaderbhai
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Chris
13 Jan 2017, 02:56 PM
explain to me how price rises assist owner occupiers in the following circumstances;

1. They never leverage debt off the 'equity' created by the rises to buy other IP;
2. The value of their house has risen but so has the house they wanted to upgrade to;

Where is the financial benefit under these circumstances?
Pretty narrow set of circumstances as Trollie said, but even in those circumstances there are many financial benefits...

1. They can downsize and have a large amount of cash left over after selling their home and buying a smaller house.

2. They can rent out spare rooms for greater sums of money.

3. They can Airbnb their house for more income.

4. They can access their equity to invest in shares, or a business, or buy a new car or boat, or take lots of foreign holidays.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Chris
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Khaderbhai
13 Jan 2017, 04:42 PM
Pretty narrow set of circumstances as Trollie said, but even in those circumstances there are many financial benefits...

1. They can downsize and have a large amount of cash left over after selling their home and buying a smaller house.

2. They can rent out spare rooms for greater sums of money.

3. They can Airbnb their house for more income.

4. They can access their equity to invest in shares, or a business, or buy a new car or boat, or take lots of foreign holidays.
All of that in some way requires the home to be either leveraged off or to use it to generate an income I.e. Use it as an investment

INCASE YOU ARE A COMPLETE f***WIT MORON YOU WOULD KNOW I WAS VETY SPECIFIC IN MENTION YOU COULDNT USE THE HOME FOR INVESTMENT.

In the example the home owner only lives in the house and pays the mortgage. I grant you the fact that they would be able to sell down the track and downsize which would provide a lump sum tax free benefit but this is a 30yr plan which has no guarantees. You don't spend your whole life upgrading into the perfect home only to sell it after 5yrs to downsize into something you lived in when you were in your 20's, some people do but it's very rare.

So you have once again lost miserably.
Trollie
13 Jan 2017, 04:29 PM
It's been explained to you enough times, you're wrong.

Yes chris great work, you claim house prices rise mean nothing, but only want to argue 2 narrow examples.

Not too confident there are you big guy.
It's not a narrow set of circumstances it is the reality for the millions of homeowners who are NOT leveraged into property
Edited by Chris, 13 Jan 2017, 05:02 PM.
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Khaderbhai
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Chris
13 Jan 2017, 04:59 PM
I WAS VETY SPECIFIC IN MENTION YOU COULDNT USE THE HOME FOR INVESTMENT
No you didn't say that. The circumstances you mentioned were...

"1. They never leverage debt off the 'equity' created by the rises to buy other IP;
2. The value of their house has risen but so has the house they wanted to upgrade to"


No mention of other investments aside from IPs.

If you need to backtrack and say they can't invest in anything, then you're being silly. It's like saying "what's the benefit of cash, given the condition that you're not allowed to use it".

Yes Chris, if homeowners aren't allowed to use their wealth, then that wealth is of no use to them. :re:
Edited by Khaderbhai, 13 Jan 2017, 05:13 PM.
Banks can't repossess your home simply because the market value falls. Australia's Consumer Credit Code says consumers aren't liable for things ordinarily outside their control and can't be held to obligations that could only be met by selling their home. Click for details.

"The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them. There are good deeds, and bad deeds. Men are just men."
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Chris
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Khaderbhai
13 Jan 2017, 05:10 PM
No you didn't say that. The circumstances you mentioned were...

"1. They never leverage debt off the 'equity' created by the rises to buy other IP;
2. The value of their house has risen but so has the house they wanted to upgrade to"


No mention of other investments aside from IPs.

If you need to backtrack and say they can't invest in anything, then you're being silly. It's like saying "what's the benefit of cash, given the condition that you're not allowed to use it".

Yes Chris, if homeowners aren't allowed to use their wealth, then that wealth is of no use to them. :re:
If you read the post at the start of this debate you would have seen it specifically mentioned no firns of investment. I realise now I'm dealing with you so I should have re-spelt out everything knowing you are opportunistic, that was my oversight.

Your cash in the bank analogy is wrong because your saying that people's homes are not homes but they are tools to leverage from. Leveraging off an asset based on a guesstimation of its worth today to invest is not the same as cash, its debt and its risk. If you sell it and make a net profit and put that in the bank that's cash. I'm surprised you dong know the difference?! You also miss that the fact that any potential net gains can be eroded by the same guesstimating process as prices are just a matter of opinion, you will then have no net gains and no cash in the bank.

This ideal that using a perceived concept of value (equity) to buy heavily indebted properties is real wealth is just a dangerous attitude that has got us into this mess.
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