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The great 'living within our means' con
Topic Started: 8 Dec 2016, 11:05 AM (4,573 Views)
Simon_S
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stinkbug
9 Dec 2016, 11:36 AM
That's a completely different issue to the discussion at hand.

Quote:
 
The value of the asset and debt, and their relationship, changes from the moment the transaction has completed. That's the whole point of leveraged investing.
Edited by stinkbug, Today, 9:28 AM.


Was your quote earlier.

It was the whole point earlier but now its a different story?
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Trollie
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Ex BP Golly
9 Dec 2016, 10:02 AM

There was no fact there. Superannuation contributions are your money, and they are placed into your account.

Come on dude, find another excuse for why the government is forcing you to take on debt.

Where is this smoking gun?

You obviously haven't been to enough property seminars if you can't understand this stuff :wink
If you can't see how taking 9% of everyones wage out of circulation doesn't drive up private debt, then I can't help you. No one can.

Here i'll help you out. Plenty of that 9% gets invested in overseas company's. There you can get all outraged now.
Edited by Trollie, 9 Dec 2016, 12:06 PM.
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stinkbug
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Simon_S
9 Dec 2016, 11:57 AM



Was your quote earlier.

It was the whole point earlier but now its a different story?
There are two issues here:

1) When debt is used to buy an asset, a transaction occurs. After this time, the values will change.

2) Whether using debt to buy an asset is a good idea, or not, is based on a whole range of unrelated factors.

The two are different things, and not closely related.
---------------------------------------------------------------

While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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skamy
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Ex BP Golly
8 Dec 2016, 01:21 PM
Seems to me govt debt is about where it should be. (Average for last 60-70 years).

Property speculators however have really phukd up.

Begging other to catch up won't fix the problem Herbie, as this chart shows:

Posted Image

You guys just have to cut your losses and run.

Can I suggest bankruptcy proceeding can help?
You chose to believe a speculation that debt rising as a % of GDP is unstable and has to stop. You quake in fear over this. However, the far more likely scenario is that debt to GDP will continue to grow as our population increases and our wealth increases.

It is not unsustainable - your graph has shown growing debt to GDP to be remarkably sustainable over the past 60 years.

I really do not know why you think anyone will fall for your silly fearmongering.
Simon_S
9 Dec 2016, 09:57 AM


Not at all.

What you forget is the Asset value falls but the Debt still remains. Or are you saying that their value always corresponds?

So when the Asset value falls so does the Debt?
Simon most of the time the asset value rises- why are you so stuck on the very occasional times when asset values fall.

In a home loan - the home owners asset is the home and the banks asset is some of the wages of the homeowner. By far and away the majority of the tome house prices rise and wages rise.

Look at the doomsters who refused to buy in Sydney in the early 1990s, they too thought that 50 years of rising debt was unsustainable, they too were convinced the whole system would come crashing down. They have missed out on at least $550K in asset price growth if not much much more. They have nothing to show for the hundreds of thousands spent on 20 years of rent.


Are you seriously gonna hang out with this bunch of losers for the next 20 years?
Edited by skamy, 9 Dec 2016, 12:33 PM.
Definition of a doom and gloomer from 1993
The last camp is made up of the doom-and-gloomers. Their slogan is "it's the end of the world as we know it". Right now they are convinced that debt is the evil responsible for all our economic woes and must be eliminated at all cost. Many doom-and-gloomers believe that unprecedented debt levels mean that we are on the precipice of a worse crisis than the Great Depression. The doom-and-gloomers hang on the latest series of negative economic data.
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Ex BP Golly
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Trollie
9 Dec 2016, 12:05 PM
If you can't see how taking 9% of everyones wage out of circulation doesn't drive up private debt, then I can't help you. No one can.

Here i'll help you out. Plenty of that 9% gets invested in overseas company's. There you can get all outraged now.
Where do you get this shit from, property seminars?

It's not taken out of circulation at all. It is the basis of a huge industry, and it saves huge numbers of the population from penury.

It's good that some of it gets invested overseas.

Have you self managed to get yourself totally exposed to Australian residential property?


skamy
9 Dec 2016, 12:23 PM
You chose to believe a speculation that debt rising as a % of GDP is unstable and has to stop. You quake in fear over this. However, the far more likely scenario is that debt to GDP will continue to grow as our population increases and our wealth increases.

It is not unsustainable - your graph has shown growing debt to GDP to be remarkably sustainable over the past 60 years.

I really do not know why you think anyone will fall for your silly fearmongering.


I do choose to think that individuals taking on more debt than your nation produces, every year for over a decade has to come to a terrible end.

I'd say the same thing of government did it.

Keating was right when he called us a Banana Republic, and Lee Kuan Yew called us The White Trash of Asia.

Take Trolley for example: thinks we live in a modern economy but orgasms at the thought of rust increasing its value, as it will allow him to go into further debt speculating on residential property.

Seriously, that is f***ed up.







Edited by Ex BP Golly, 9 Dec 2016, 03:10 PM.
WHAT WOULD EDDIE DO? MAAAATE!
Share a cot with Milton?
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Matthew
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Simon_S
9 Dec 2016, 09:57 AM
What you forget is the Asset value falls but the Debt still remains.
And what you forget is that as the Asset value rises the debt remains the same.
My only hope for my three boys is that they turn out nothing at all like Chris.
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Trollie
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Ex BP Golly
9 Dec 2016, 02:56 PM
Where do you get this shit from, property seminars?
No, is that were you get it from?
Matthew
9 Dec 2016, 03:25 PM
And what you forget is that as the Asset value rises the debt remains the same.
Actually he also forgets inflation errodes the debt as well. So in real terms the debt doesn't stay the same at all.
Edited by Trollie, 9 Dec 2016, 03:32 PM.
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stinkbug
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Ex BP Golly
9 Dec 2016, 02:56 PM
Where do you get this shit from, property seminars?

For the third time in a day or so, how many property seminars have you been to Golly?
---------------------------------------------------------------

While it's true that those who win never quit, and those who quit never win, those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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Simon_S
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skamy
9 Dec 2016, 12:23 PM

Simon most of the time the asset value rises- why are you so stuck on the very occasional times when asset values fall.

Are you seriously gonna hang out with this bunch of losers for the next 20 years?
Most of the time.......

Asset values at Record Highs....
Interest rates at Record Lows....
Debt at Record Highs....

And you're calling another 20 years of growth.......After we just had a Negative Quarter of growth?


Matthew
9 Dec 2016, 03:25 PM
And what you forget is that as the Asset value rises the debt remains the same.
Oh they do not charge interest on the DEBT now........

My how times have changed...
Trollie
9 Dec 2016, 03:31 PM

Actually he also forgets inflation errodes the debt as well. So in real terms the debt doesn't stay the same at all.
What is the Inflation rate again........
Edited by Simon_S, 9 Dec 2016, 04:02 PM.
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Trollie
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Simon_S
9 Dec 2016, 04:00 PM
Oh they do not charge interest on the DEBT now........
You've never had a loan, have you kid.
Simon_S
9 Dec 2016, 04:00 PM
<br />What is the Inflation rate again........
You don't know that and you want to lecture everyone else?
Edited by Trollie, 9 Dec 2016, 04:28 PM.
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